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Kimmo

What a joke

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@fliptopia there are countries right now not surviving too well at all within the confines of the EU, so no, imo,  a WW111 is really not needed to add to the troubles

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🙂

 

 I agree with what Datafast has said, completely.

 

Both NATO and the EU are well crafted institutions that do what they do very well, NATO has in many ways a simpler task, which is just as well because military minds tend to the pragmatic.

 

The EU is, I'm getting tired of saying it,  an organisation overdue to be trimmed but it had a complex task to do, one that has thus far, aside from the ridiculous intervention of Brexit, been achieved  fairly well.

 

 It is not that the EU has to handle trade, it is that placing that responsibility in the hands of a military is way beyond foolhardy - it is not what a military is designed to do. It is also why history has shown the wisdom of keeping such decision making away from the military. Otherwise you tend to get over ambitious Generals and coups.

 

Your simplification of centuries of European intrigue is breathtaking, in its stupidity,  how very Russian of you.

 

The way you are framing this makes me wonder if you do not have wet dreams of being the next Hitler... ( Sneaky suggestion: It did not go well for him.)

 

Europe remains a very complex beast, simplistic solutions will not resolve the entanglements, not when Spain cannot decide if it wants a monarchy or not, is still dealing with Basque insurrection and was once a rival to Britain as lord of the sea, Italy still fosters a degree of fascism, Germany can quite easily tip right without a firm hand, France can get snooty any time, take its ball and go home, England demonstrably has lost the plot, the Scandinavians wish they were far away, the list goes on, those are just the main players.

 

You approach is stupidly simplistic and seems born of some bewildering hatred of the EU.

 

I'll say it one more time, the EU promises an enduring peace for Europe - that is worth putting up with its short comings.

 

Oh, which countries might those be Eveln ?

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Oh, which countries might those be Eveln ?

Oh. I'm tired of doing your homework for you. You do it. It's beneath me to pander to you

Edited by eveln

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48 minutes ago, fliptopia said:

 

Do you have to have world war 3 to be worse off? 


Do you have to have the EU to stop wars?

11 minutes ago, chrisg said:

You approach is stupidly simplistic and seems born of some bewildering hatred of the EU.


Your approach is stupidly simplistic and seems born of some sort of bewildering love of the EU.

12 minutes ago, chrisg said:

It is not that the EU has to handle trade, it is that placing that responsibility in the hands of a military is way beyond foolhardy


The only person who is suggesting that or even talking about that here - is you.

 

Literally no-one else has suggested this.

 

Why are you talking about that?

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🙂

 

You always know when those who are losing the argument have had enough - they start asking questions...

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, chrisg said:

 

🙂

 

You always know when those who are losing the argument have had enough - they start asking questions...

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Kinda how you ask questions about the HIV/AIDS link?

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Just now, LogicprObe said:

 

Aren't we trying to do some sort of dodgy trade agreement with the EU?


Yep. It’s convoluted as fuck.

 

It makes our senate electoral rules look simple.

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🙂

 

 Like I said you argue like Trump - but to play along, just where is the HIV/AIDS link ?

 

It has never been demonstrated.

 

Cheers

 

Actually I was up most of the night working on a most bemusing network trace, so I am due for a nap 🙂

 

 

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4 minutes ago, eveln said:

that's okay chrisg. it is time for your nap isn't it ...

 

Well.................it's definitely MY medication time!

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Just now, LogicprObe said:

 

Well.................it's definitely MY medication time!

I'm ahead of you by one shot !

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3 minutes ago, chrisg said:

 Like I said you argue like Trump - but to play along, just where is the HIV/AIDS link ?

 

 

You always know when those who are losing the argument have had enough - they start asking questions...

  • Haha 1

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19 minutes ago, Leonid said:

 Do you have to have the EU to stop wars?

 

I didn't think it was such a binary question.  

11 minutes ago, Leonid said:

 

You always know when those who are losing the argument have had enough - they start asking questions...

Or they no longer feel they understand your point. That can be for better or for worse. Clarification is good, no? 

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Just now, LogicprObe said:

 

We need to drag HIM back from facebook!

I am not and never have been a member there. He did visit not too long ago iirc

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2 minutes ago, eveln said:

I am not and never have been a member there. He did visit not too long ago iirc

 

Well, they banned me over there because someone reckoned that Logic Probe wasn't my real name!!!!

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7 minutes ago, fliptopia said:

I didn't think it was such a binary question.  

 

It's a fairly simple question. Do we think that without the EU in the form that it is today (a supranational government), the countries of Europe would be at war?

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2 minutes ago, LogicprObe said:

 

Well, they banned me over there because someone reckoned that Logic Probe wasn't my real name!!!!

Sometimes ya just can't win can ya ?!

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7 minutes ago, fliptopia said:

Or they no longer feel they understand your point. That can be for better or for worse. Clarification is good, no? 

 

It's easy to misunderstand my point when they're arguing against something I've never even suggested.

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1 hour ago, Leonid said:

 

It's a fairly simple question. Do we think that without the EU in the form that it is today (a supranational government), the countries of Europe would be at war?

 

How could one tell from this far down the rabbit hole? Would the alternative deterrents be more or less effective and what else might they entail? It's these sort of questions that for me mean a straight yes or no is not so easy to give. 

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20 minutes ago, fliptopia said:

 

How could one tell from this far down the rabbit hole? Would the alternative deterrents be more or less effective and what else might they entail? It's these sort of questions that for me mean a straight yes or no is not so easy to give. 

 

Do you need to be a Lawd Jaysus fearin' bible-tootin' Christian to be a moral person?

 

Is the bible the only thing between morality and the abyss? Hell is the bible required for anyone to be moral?

 

If not, why is the EU the bible of Europe? Are we that worried that Europe will got to war against itself again in a post-monarchy, post-Hitler age without it?

Edited by Leonid
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6 hours ago, Leonid said:

 

Do you need to be a Lawd Jaysus fearin' bible-tootin' Christian to be a moral person?

 

Is the bible the only thing between morality and the abyss? Hell is the bible required for anyone to be moral?

 

If not, why is the EU the bible of Europe? Are we that worried that Europe will got to war against itself again in a post-monarchy, post-Hitler age without it?

 

I get what you're saying about it's not the only way to achieve what the EU achieves. Although I would say that the bible may be the only thing between some people and complete immorality even if it does fall short and ends up making other less moral... But I digress. 

 

I'm fine with another solution to do what the EU does but I don't think it will practically get there now. Too much to undo and too much angst over what any new system might entail. The Windows for radical changes like this may be past. The single currency and general ease for tourists to travel seem to be beneficial. Trade bargaining power and easy trade between EU nations are also good ideas. Obviously some of that doesn't fall in the favour of some people who have competing ideas on how these things should be run. That's outside the Kumbaya peace thing. 

 

You're right that there are probably better ways with less shitty oversight and ruling structure. I don't know what will get up now. If it falls apart, we'll you'll lose some things and gain some things. Some countries a lot more than others on both fronts. 

 

It's like how a Swiss army knife is a compromise tool for pretty much everything in it. But if you throw it out and all you have left is a screwdriver you might just miss the knife or maybe even the toothpick. 

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4 hours ago, fliptopia said:

Too much to undo and too much angst over what any new system might entail.

And I reckon that's what the EU powers that be are really banking on.

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