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Kimmo

Happy Invasion Day

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14 minutes ago, fliptopia said:

Being concerned about issues like that isn't racist but I find it frustrating when people say "leave problem a alone because problem b is bigger" when both things can be fixed and problem b has a seemingly simple deflection. 

I still haven't seen or read the low-down of what was actually said ... but it doesn't seem to me that both issues can be dealt with simultaneously The Aussie -day-date conversation has been going on for a few years now , and the treatment of people in the communities has been going on for more than decades ... just saying.

Quote

It does come across a bit racist because it sounds like she's saying we shouldn't worry about whether the day offends Aboriginal people because in some areas they treat each other poorly, rather than just talking about the treating each other poorly as a separate issue. 

Oh. I hadn't interpreted it from that angle.  I don't really think that's a fair assessment of what the rest of Aus. and the governing bodies having been trying to do really.

edit:

Abbott wanted to close down / bring in the far flung communities . My cynical observation on that one was purely for costs and perhaps mining leases. At the same time, those far flung communities live how they want and treat each other
which ever way they want. And as " Brooke " ( somebody or other )  has told of her own story, that's a bit more than just being treated "poorly" ...

Edited by eveln
continue line of chat

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33 minutes ago, eveln said:

today's Australian had a piece about Kerry-Anne Kennerley being called a racist

Let me guess - the tone suggested you shouldn't think she's a racist. 

Seen the vid? 

She's a racist. Attempting to dismiss the protesters by conjuring The Intervention (with its pungent overtones of white supremacy and bullshit), is just whataboutism; a non sequitur. It's a shame Yumi Stynes didn't do a better job of shooting her down, but I can understand why she flubbed it, given the pressure of tackling KAK and middle Australia head on like that, and I applaud her courage. 

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Not seen the vid or read the article thoroughly ... There was an Aboriginal elder quoted in the article saying he thought it wasn't right o call KAK a racist, cos the stuff she was talking about was going on and needed to be brought into the public eye more and more.
He wanted to know why there were no marches in the streets for the girl who was raped recently ... it made the news it seems but not much more than that.

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9 minutes ago, Kimmo said:

thanks. I think she's not being racist and I think Yumi is waay to quick to call it like that.  ... but hey neither you or I know what those 5 thousand protesters have done or not either

edit:

why aren't those 5 thousand protesters marching for the health and wellbeing of the female folk ? Why aren't they holding candle lit vigils when one of their women folk is raped and murdered <<< I'm thinking of that Melbourne girl a few years ago who was followed and taken from the street after a work-do. The guy was caught, but the media attention and walks organised for that galvanised most of Aus.

Edited by eveln
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8 minutes ago, eveln said:

neither you or I know

And neither does KAK, and something nobody knows is WTF that has to do with attending a demonstration about the fact that celebrating the day white fellas rocked up to start colonising as our national day sure isn't the most inclusive way to celebrate our nation, and in fact is obviously pretty deeply offensive to the black fellas who've survived that colonisation. 

This has fuck-all to do with what anybody's doing about imaginary sexual abuse. It's a total red herring

18 minutes ago, eveln said:

There was an Aboriginal elder quoted in the article 

A Liberal party member, you mean. I'm pretty sure that actually cancels out being Aboriginal. 

Edited by Kimmo

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11 minutes ago, Kimmo said:

And neither does KAK, and something nobody knows is WTF that has to do with attending a demonstration about the fact that celebrating the day white fellas rocked up to start colonising as orr national day sure isn't the most inclusive way to celebrate our nation, and in fact is obviously pretty deeply offensive to the black fellas who've survived that colonisation. 

This has fuck-all to do with what anybody's doing about imaginary sexual abuse. It's a total red herring

Not at all.

" pretty deeply offensive to the black fellas who've survived that colonisation. " ... Wow


Do you think the date makes the slightest bit of difference to the aboriginal woman picking up her baby after they've both been assaulted ? You do see that if the Aboriginal woman and girl are not looked after the "black fellas " will die out ?

 

Edited by eveln
you did see that I'd already suggested Jan 2nd as a better day didn't you ? ?

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12 minutes ago, eveln said:

Do you think the date makes the slightest bit of difference to the aboriginal woman picking up her baby after they've both been assaulted ? You do see that if the Aboriginal woman and girl are not looked after the "black fellas " will die out ?

What about climate change? Why are you bothering with what I think about this when how you get to work is killing the whole biosphere? 

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10 minutes ago, Kimmo said:
23 minutes ago, eveln said:

Do you think the date makes the slightest bit of difference to the aboriginal woman picking up her baby after they've both been assaulted ? You do see that if the Aboriginal woman and girl are not looked after the "black fellas " will die out ?

What about climate change? Why are you bothering with what I think about this when how you get to work is killing the whole biosphere?

huh? Ohhh I see you're putting up a red herring ... why would you do that ?

Edited by eveln
:P~

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1 hour ago, Kimmo said:

A Liberal party member, you mean. I'm pretty sure that actually cancels out being Aboriginal. 

And there we have it ladies and gentlemen.

Blackfella leaves the plantation and speaks of a future not based entirely on victim Olympics, is no longer a blackfella.

Fun fact: in recent decades a lot of prominent Aborigines have drifted rightwards because sit-down money gets their people nowhere and they aren’t interested in conforming to or romanticising the left’s racist stereotypes of them.

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2 hours ago, eveln said:

I still haven't seen or read the low-down of what was actually said ... but it doesn't seem to me that both issues can be dealt with simultaneously The Aussie -day-date conversation has been going on for a few years now , and the treatment of people in the communities has been going on for more than decades ... just saying.

I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to point out here. Maybe you could put it differently? Can we not as a nation deal with multiple issues daily? The national conversation can be had on many topics. You could look at it these forums for instance. We manage to talk in various threads in one day just fine. Why set back the timeline of one issue by exclusively talking about the other. It just seem this sort of talk happens every time there is an inconvenient topic brought up. 

As for the rest. I'm trying to show how it will be interpreted from some quarters. Maybe KAK didn't mean it like that but it could very well be interpreted that way. Maybe a poor choice of words? Maybe racist? Maybe deflecting dealing with the Australia day business because she's scared of what happens when she takes a definite side and just ends up offending people in the process? I can't read her mind. 

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KAKs arguments were badly stated and tone deaf which 100% did make it sound racist.  

she's obviously conservative on changing the date, probably through casual privileged ignorance more than anything else.  i believe she was trying to echo sentiments that ive heard expressed by some idigenous people on the topic.  

problem is, she appeared to be misappropriating their arguments because a) they happen to suit her, and b) they allow the perfect subterfuge of high and mighty virtue signalling to disguise how little neither she, nor her chauffeur, actually gives a shit.

shes calling out the supposed tokenism and hypocrisy of Change the Daters for not being focused on "the real issues".  at the same time, she is citing "the real issues" as a provocative misdirection — an effortless thing to do compared to marching in the streets — specifically as a means of engaging in and scoring points towards winning one side of a debate, that to her, is supposedly a "non-issue".  ooh, whats that smell?  its tokenism, hypocrisy, and KAK.

she is a savvy woman.  as such, its hard to excuse her for not understanding that she was effectively dog whistling the tune of those who think "Why should we care about these abos when they don't even care about themselves?", for whom there are still too many advocates in parliament.   i truly doubt thats an accurate picture of what she thinks or what she meant, but boy did she royally drop the ball.

that aside, suppose she was arguing in good faith but having a very bad day?  

i think its valid for anyone who cares about indigenous issues to be frustrated by the media cycles in this country.  the slices of time in which these problems are allowed a chance to occupy the forefront of national attention are few and far between.  it must be a constant battle for advocates just to get noticed.  beavering away in the Tent Embassy strategising over how to pierce that giant bubble of non-indigenous complacency.  and then, every year, BOOM, a giant whack of attention — but its wasted in squabbles over the most intangible thing possible.

 

Edited by @~thehung
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13 minutes ago, @~thehung said:

problem is, she appeared to be misappropriating their arguments because a) they happen to suit her, and b) they allow the perfect subterfuge of high and mighty virtue signalling to disguise how little neither she, nor her chauffeur, actually gives a shit.

Boom.

I also have something of a taste of salt in my mouth when I realise that this is the first public mention we've heard from KAK on this matter. If this bothers her so deeply, why is her first mention of it basically just an attempt to stomp on people trying to do good? Strikes me as disingenuous.

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6 hours ago, Rybags said:

Jan 1st... it'd be totally lost in the noise of Chrismas/NYE.  Nobody would want to do much, and in any case plenty aren't home at the time.

I agree. Federation Day is the logical choice but Jan 1st is already a holiday.

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Wasn't there another population from an earlier branch of the human tree that were displaced by the arrival of what we call Aborigines.

If true they wouldn't be Aboriginal, that title would belong to the original occupants ot Terra Australis.

I wonder what happened to them, they seem to have disappeared.🤔

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PS: I also vote for changing it to Federation Day.

Prior to that we were basically still a colony that started as a penal colony.

 

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52 minutes ago, Kimmo said:

If you find yourself agreeing with fucking News Corp, you should probably stop and take a look at yourself. 

Not to say I agree wit them on this instance or any other, but even Alex Jones/Inforwars/Breitbart get something right occasionally.  (The date, usually.)

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8 hours ago, fliptopia said:
10 hours ago, eveln said:

I still haven't seen or read the low-down of what was actually said ... but it doesn't seem to me that both issues can be dealt with simultaneously The Aussie -day-date conversation has been going on for a few years now , and the treatment of people in the communities has been going on for more than decades ... just saying.

I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to point out here. Maybe you could put it differently? Can we not as a nation deal with multiple issues daily? The national conversation can be had on many topics. You could look at it these forums for instance. We manage to talk in various threads in one day just fine. Why set back the timeline of one issue by exclusively talking about the other. It just seem this sort of talk happens every time there is an inconvenient topic brought up. 

As for the rest. I'm trying to show how it will be interpreted from some quarters. Maybe KAK didn't mean it like that but it could very well be interpreted that way. Maybe a poor choice of words? Maybe racist? Maybe deflecting dealing with the Australia day business because she's scared of what happens when she takes a definite side and just ends up offending people in the process? I can't read her mind.

So, I have seen the clip now.

I wasn't saying that the date could not be discussed because other more important issues ( imo) hadn't been sorted. I was saying that both issues had been on the table for years ... but, imo, the date change one seemed to galvanise people to get up and march and protest, where as the plight of women and babies in remote communities didn't. Do you see ? I do note that protests occur when there are deaths in custody and that makes me curious about why there are no marches for the women and children ...

What KAK said has been interpreted in differing ways by the bent of the viewers personal politics. That can be said of anyone. I think Yumi definitely chose to read it as a provocative statement that tries to undermine the protesters' march.

Do you know I never heard of this Yumi person before ... I think she should thank KAK for helping her to make her mark 😉

@~thehung is right, KAK is a savvy woman seems like she's been around forever. Thing is, I reckon when a person has lived more than five or six decades personal and moral/ethical priorities change. Maybe the understanding that losing the female of
the community to death and disease should be more important than a date on a Calendar ... just saying. The date on a Calendar won't matter a fig if the community no longer exists.

Edited by eveln

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1 hour ago, Cybes said:

even Alex Jones/Inforwars/Breitbart get something right occasionally

Yeah, stopped clocks and all that. Hence the 'probably" qualifier. 

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2 hours ago, eveln said:

So, I have seen the clip now.

I wasn't saying that the date could not be discussed because other more important issues ( imo) hadn't been sorted. I was saying that both issues had been on the table for years ... but, imo, the date change one seemed to galvanise people to get up and march and protest, where as the plight of women and babies in remote communities didn't. Do you see ? I do note that protests occur when there are deaths in custody and that makes me curious about why there are no marches for the women and children ...

What KAK said has been interpreted in differing ways by the bent of the viewers personal politics. That can be said of anyone. I think Yumi definitely chose to read it as a provocative statement that tries to undermine the protesters' march.

Do you know I never heard of this Yumi person before ... I think she should thank KAK for helping her to make her mark 😉

Yeah, that makes much more sense to me now. Thanks for clarifying. To my mind, I'd liken it to having a storm and part of your roof comes in and you have a cracked tile letting water in else where. I'd go fix the cracked tile because I know what to do with that. In the same way people have an easier time dealing with the date. I don't think their forgetting the bigger problems but it's easier to galvanise around a easier to fix issue. 

As for Yumi, I remember she was in the shit with people a few years ago for suggesting some soldier wasn't smart because he was good looking. Also I don't think anyone really chooses to take something a certain way. It'd be nice if people took more time to ask questions and better understand a position rather than just jumping on people. I guess the TV world doesnt allow for that in this sort of format. 

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Anyway, I'm thinking Channel Ten is gonna be trying to get more fireworks in their panel shows now, given all the clicks...

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I have seen some of the strangest justifications for KAK’s “racism”.

 

She’s not doing whataboutism. She’s pointing out the hypocrisy of some of the “change the date movement”.

 

1. Does the change the date movement ever arc up about it any other time of the year? As in - is it people with a cause like gay marriage activists who campaign year round? Or is it a bunch of leftie rent-a-crowd protesters who don’t give two shits about Aborigines and just commit to “change the date” for selfish “fuck da man” reasons?

 

2. Imagine you were to get all of Australia’s aborigines in a room and ask them to write their top 20 political desires. Then ask them to write their top 20 political desires related only to Aboriginality. Average the responses. Who thinks “change the date” is in the top 20 in either?

 

 

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11 hours ago, Kothos said:

I agree. Federation Day is the logical choice but Jan 1st is already a holiday.

How about then instead of celebrating the date the constitution came in to effect, we celebrate the date it was passed into law.

July 9th.

Maybe not the best weather for BBQs and cricket, but good time of the year for a lamb roast!

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Why wouldn't you be most vocal about a change of date when people are thinking of it? You would want people to bring it up at Easter? Where would the relevance to the population be? 

As to the second point, as I said earlier, it probably isn't the most pressing issue for them but it is the least complicated to fix. 

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