Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Kimmo

Happy Invasion Day

Recommended Posts

i am not a fan of the "sorry industry", which seems to thrive on financial reparation that is siphoned off by the same shysters that thrive in western societies

being black doesn't make you any more reliable than being white if you are a scammer at heart

 

but over time i have become more and more sympathetic as to why the eora people, and by association, all the other people who are affected by the spread of white "civilisation" , have due cause to refer to it as an invasion - there's no other word to describe colonisation by an uninvited and increasingly unwanted foreign power

 

the date chosen has no universal relevance to australia; it is a uniquely local nsw event for a nascent nation that wasn't proclaimed a single entity until way, way later at federation, or maybe even when the country was re-badged australia rather than new holland, or terra australis

 

 

the fixation on jan 26 being an appropriate day to celebrate the "birth" of the nation is understandable, but from the indigenous point of view it is like celebrating a devastating epidemic on the day that the index patient was first diagnosed - the start of a disaster, so it is entirely obvious to me that it is both inappropriate to try and sell it as a day for "all australians", and provocative to ignore the reasons why that is a completely untenable and disrespectful argument

 

maybe the day we proclaimed our nation as a sovereign nation; maybe even the day the constitution recognised aborigines as legal voters

 

but not the day a bunch of evictees from the old dart were deposited on the shores of port jackson like some lethal contagion ejaculated up the arse end of the world; that's just pretty sick, really

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by scruffy1
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the rate Kimmo ignores people and opinions that don’t conform with his arrogant naivety about the possibility of there being good people who don’t need to burn society to the ground for ideological reasons to achieve good results - he’ll soon be in a forum of one person talking to himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Leonid said:

At the rate Kimmo ignores people and opinions that don’t conform with his arrogant naivety about the possibility of there being good people who don’t need to burn society to the ground for ideological reasons to achieve good results - he’ll soon be in a forum of one person talking to himself.

It's true that it doesn't help to live in a bubble of those who mostly agree with you.  You don't change peoples minds by not understanding why they are opposed to you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's pretty simple - if you reckon it's cool to punch down, I probably think you're a prick. And if you're one of two or three trolls in particular I remember from here, I don't give a flaming rat's arse what you have to say. Not interested in the slightest, beyond occasionally confirming my judgement that it'd be a mistake to engage. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Says cliched entitled 1 percenter cusp-millennial guy whose idea of not punching down is to bring on equal misery.

I swear... people like Kimmo ought to be deported to live in places they want Australia to emulate - or the eventual result. These people are just so impractical that the only reason they manage to survive is because of warning labels on everything.

 

In short,

- Kimmo’s idea of NOT punching down: socialism for everyone

- Kimmo’s idea of punching down: being told he’s a fucking moron for wanting to impoverish people with failed experiments and generally being a constant rectum vis a vis every issue where he sees an opportunity to don a face mask and wave a pitchfork at “Da Man”

Edited by Leonid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Leonid said:

Says cliched entitled 1 percenter cusp-millennial guy whose idea of not punching down is to bring on equal misery.

I swear... people like Kimmo ought to be deported to live in places they want Australia to emulate - or the eventual result. These people are just so impractical that the only reason they manage to survive is because of warning labels on everything.

I believe we've been here before. He believes what he believes. You believe what you believe. People at the passionate extreme left counterbalance then people at the passionate extreme right. Sure it would be nice if everyone could just all believe the same thing and live in harmony but people don't choose what they believe and if only one side is passionate then they control the narrative and society goes too far one way or the other. 

What would be nice is if name calling and personal attacks on both sides could be avoided but then again this is the internet and I can't say I've not typed my fair share of personally directed stuff. 

  • Yes Sir! Very atomic! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

100 million died last century to in numerous attempts to prove his theories work.

Three million Venezuelans are currently prostituting themselves in 3rd countries for a few bucks because of universal welfare through socialism. And the fucking Cuban police are shooting people on the streets in Caracas to prop up a kleptocrat/Socialist.

 

I can understand believing what you believe. But what level of subhuman stupidity do you have to plumb to perform the equivalent of licking a live power point in the hope that you won’t get electrocuted for the 14th time, after being electrocuted 13 times?

Like... temper your beliefs with some fucking reality. It only took Labor 3 attempts to realise that baiting sharks with brown people in the Java Sea may constitute good press but delivers pretty piss-poor results. How many times we gotta have rejects who can’t function without tearing everyone down, try socialism?

Edited by Leonid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Leonid said:

failed experiments

I know you have blood in your eye from previous personal experience, Leo, and I don't think Socialism or Communism are The Answer, but that strikes me as a little unfair. When the tsar was overthrown, Russia was the poorest country in the world; in just 40 years of that economic system they had the mighty Americans shitting themselves at losing the space race.  Cuba managed to keep their universal healthcare system operational despite crippling US sanctions for the entirety of Castro's reign - re-enacted fairly faithfully in Venezuela, and being set up for yet another US backed 'regime change' war and puppet government installation.

Let's not confuse an economic system with some problems but also obvious benefits with a succession of bloodthirsty dictators.  Let's also not idolise one with different flaws (a 7 year boom/bust cycle for instance) and advantages because the nation has an illusion of freedom attached.  Instead, let's try to acknowledge what is broken and what is superior in *all* systems and try to synthesize something better. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Things can always be done better but also people take the attitude that it won't happen to them. This time they have the kinks sorted out. Sometimes they're right though often they don't see the problems until the problems can no longer be shied away from. It's why some people take drugs from people they don't know made who knows where and with what.

Like most people though, the more you yell at them they're wrong the more they dig their heals in. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Cybes said:

Cuba managed to keep their universal healthcare system operational despite crippling US sanctions for the entirety of Castro's reign

I really don't want to talk about Russia so I'll talk about Cuba's "universal health care".

15,000 Cuban doctors worked in Brazil, in a scheme run by the UN agency PAHO.
Brazil (over 5 years) paid $1.5 billion in salaries.
The Havana regime grabbed $1.3 billion of that. 
The UN agency skimmed $75 million.
Doctors got $125 million, or less than 10% of their salaries.


Socialists the world over point to Cuba’s medical system as an example.

11 minutes ago, Cybes said:

Instead, let's try to acknowledge what is broken and what is superior in *all* systems and try to synthesize something better.

You'll find more things worthy of emulation in Wahhabi-ist Saudi Arabian politics than in Socialism. 

Socialism is universally the stupidest and most flawed system we've ever developed, with zero redeeming features. It sounds good, which is why rectums keep pushing it - but it has never actually achieved anything worthwhile.

 

I should also point out - re my last point.... about Cuba. Cuban doctors working overseas as slaves for the regime were never allowed to take their wives or children. So as not to defect. Indentured slavery and permanent state of ransom. 

Edited by Leonid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Cybes said:

in just 40 years of that economic system they had the mighty Americans shitting themselves at losing the space race.

No you know what... fuck it... we'll talk about Russia. My grandad worked on the comms systems for Sputnik - that's not the whole story but it's part of it.

Russia diverted all resources to the space program. Centrally planned economies can do that. Russia won the space race but people couldn't fucking feed themselves, lived in unheated units without phone lines or electricity.

None of you understand Russia. Russians will literally starve themselves for a year to beat America at something.

That's not "winning".

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Leonid said:

Russia diverted all resources to the space program. Centrally planned economies can do that. Russia won the space race but people couldn't fucking feed themselves, lived in unheated units without phone lines or electricity.

Which precisely describes their lot under the tsar, no?  To be able to have anything at all was pretty remarkable.

And as to Cuba's slave doctors... Don't you think that might have been down to the dictator rather than the economic system?

See, dictators *love* Communism: it pretty much has to be machine gun authoritarian at first to make the elites hand over their wealth (because you don't get to be rich in the first place without being a selfish prick - speaking as someone who has known several), and then it's just incredibly easy to make *everybody* a slave.  But that's *human* frailty - not a design flaw of the economics. The flaw is needing to force the elites in the first place.

Btw, you seem to be using 'socialism' and 'communism' interchangeably. They're not exactly the same, despite the USSR's branding. East Germany wasn't a democracy, either.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Cybes said:

Which precisely describes their lot under the tsar, no?  To be able to have anything at all was pretty remarkable.

No. Communists put down rebellions to go back to Tsarist rule because it was better under the Tsars.

 

22 minutes ago, Cybes said:

 And as to Cuba's slave doctors... Don't you think that might have been down to the dictator rather than the economic system?

Define the difference when the economic system is the dictator and the dictator is your economic system as per socialism?

 

22 minutes ago, Cybes said:

it pretty much has to be machine gun authoritarian at first to make the elites hand over their wealth (because you don't get to be rich in the first place without being a selfish prick - speaking as someone who has known several)

Actually you can get rich without being a selfish prick, and most do.... but that's by-the-by. The problem is that you don't get the elites to hand over their wealth. You just transfer the wealth and the eliteness from the proletariat to the party apparatchiks. Socialism takes from the productively wealthy and gives to the rulers.

 

22 minutes ago, Cybes said:

But that's *human* frailty - not a design flaw of the economics.

The economics of socialism is based on zero incentivism - the economics is fundamentally a flaw in and of itself. Socialism cannot reconcile humanity and economics.

Socialism does not, cannot, will not and has never worked specifically because of fundamental flaws in the theory of socialism (not a surprise given it was designed by an anti-social loser who mooched off his best friend and never took responsibility for anyone or anything).

Socialists LOVE separating elements of socialism and saying socialism is corrupted by human frailty. It's kind of cute how they do that. It leads to the conclusion that socialism is never socialism ,even if it's socialism! But the reality is that if you design an anti-human system - it's not going to work and will be a design-flaw in the economic theory of that system.

 

22 minutes ago, Cybes said:

Btw, you seem to be using 'socialism' and 'communism' interchangeably. They're not exactly the same

"The goal of socialism is communism" 

Edited by Leonid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

🙂

Many broad subjects but Cuba I really do take issue over.

It should have been much like most of the other Caribbean Island nations but under a dictator the mob wanted to use the island as their next branch of building illicit wealth via casinos and prostitution until the Castro led rebels came to town, kicked out Batista and the mob.

Then what did the U.S. do ? Isolated the place, basically forced them to turn to Communist Russia/USSR because their near neighbour did not like it seems having their playground of gambling and cheap hookers taken away. Anyone who thinks there have not been and probably still are close associations between La Cosa Nostra and U.S. politics need only look to Cuba.

It was never really communist, it was a path of expediency but it did work out ok for them in real terms, just not as well as it could have with better more honest Western World ties.

It was Moscow that insisted upon the use of Cuban skills and how they be implemented around the world, doctors in particular but also mercenaries in Angola, possibly in Grenada and now in Venezuela. Cuba represents a massive failure of U.S. foreign policy which is pretty shit at the best of times that was taken advantage of by Russia whose approach to foreign affairs is equally crap.

Neither system is worth the lies they are built upon but no one has come up with a much better option as yet.

Personally I have a hankering for Anarchy, it would at least take power away from the scum on top for a while until the next layer surfaced but it is of course as ridiculous and impractical not to mention impossible to implement within the human condition as Democracy that gravitates power to the few or Communism where everyone is created equal except for those who are not...

Instead of criticising ways that don't work Leo, have any ideas on what might ?

Cheers

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Leonid said:

AOC is on record stating she wants a socialism like the Nordics.

Funnily enough the Nordics aren’t socialist. They’re a form of welfare capitalism.

specifically, Norway is Social Democracy, which is a form of welfare capitalism that is basically a synthesis of socialist principles into the framework of capitalism within a democracy.

so the Nordics arent socialist, but you could say their system incorporates some of the redeeming features of socialism.

as for AOC, if what you say is true then she is confused, because she is a proponent of Democratic Socialism which is a lot more handsy and skewed towards socialism/communism proper.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah @th, I rather like the way the Scandinavian countries in general are set up but to a degree I think it works because of the national character, the way the people are, it might not work as well in other countries but it might be worth the experiment.

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, @~thehung said:

specifically, Norway is Social Democracy, which is a form of welfare capitalism that is basically a synthesis of socialist principles into the framework of capitalism within a democracy.

so the Nordics arent socialist, but you could say their system incorporates some of the redeeming features of socialism.

as for AOC, if what you say is true then she is confused, because she is a proponent of Democratic Socialism which is a lot more handsy and skewed towards socialism/communism proper.

Nothing you call “Socialist principles” are actually such. Social welfare predates socialism and GOOD social welfare has never been experienced by anyone in a socialist society.

Socialism’s only achievement or purpose is the taking of existing earned capital, redistributing it to the unproductive and the taking of economic freedom in exchange for supposed economic security.

Edited by Leonid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Leonid said:

Nothing you call “Socialist principles” are actually such. Social welfare predates socialism and GOOD social welfare has never been experienced by anyone in a socialist society.

Socialism’s only achievement or purpose is the taking of existing earned capital, redistributing it to the unproductive and the taking of economic freedom in exchange for supposed economic security.

yeah, not going to bother providing references to rebut a position so self-evidently asinine.

here's an idea: read a book once in a while, Casper

2017-08-27_2147.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it just me, or did the notion of keeping the topic at hand at least vaguely in mind completely die in the arse while I was gone? 

Oh well... Punching down. Not explicitly disavowed, then. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, @~thehung said:

yeah, not going to bother providing references to rebut a position so self-evidently asinine.

Experience socialism.

Then try the "read a book" bullshit from a position of less ignorance and stupidity.

Edited by Leonid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, chrisg said:

Yeah @th, I rather like the way the Scandinavian countries in general are set up but to a degree I think it works because of the national character, the way the people are, it might not work as well in other countries but it might be worth the experiment.

Cheers

It may work in other countries where there is a strong work ethic and low immigration from unskilled states - ie Japan.

But for example - you couldn't craft it onto Greece.

The Nordic model is nice... but I will point this out: the Nordic model has a very serious user-pays ethic that we utterly reject here. An example is the Medicare Co-Payment - we raised hell about it here for no good reason. The Nordics have had it for decades. Nobody bats an eyelid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

🙂

I dunno if I'd call the Norwegian work ethic really much different to that in Australia overall, or that in Sweden or Denmark for that matter - spent a deal of time in all of those countries at various times. What is noticeable, and actually mentioned quite often by citizens, is a degree of boredom, sort of understandable.

No, it would most likely not be a system suitable for Greece, Italy, Spain but oddly might be ok in France and Germany is sort of half way there anyway.

I can't see it working in the U.K. tbh, the term "dole bludger" originated there.

I don't know about actually living under a socialist regime but the U.K. before I left might as well have been and I have visited various such regimes, bloody depressing.

What works one place may well not work in another but dog-eat-dog is not a solution either, the U.S. is well down that path and hugely divided along wealth grounds and getting worse.

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Leonid said:

Experience socialism.

Then try the "read a book" bullshit from a position of less ignorance and stupidity.

okay, heres a link .  you see, ive had my share of contact with people who exhibit chronic denialism, so i can tell you a thing or two about that.  and i can hit you up with a weak argument from authority based on my lived experience.

the critical thing here though, is that my definition of denialism happens to match the consensus.  so i can tell you that youve got it bad and be confident any psychologist worth their salt would agree.  why?

because no political scientist worth their salt would argue that Social Democracy doesnt incorporate some elements of Socialism.  to say otherwise, is going flat-earther level, flashing neon lights, full retard.  or, as in your case, obvious neurosis.

but go ahead, keep blaring out your own personal definition if it helps you protect the cognitive dissonance youve built into the foundations of your self-identity.  just as a word of encouragement though, i think it would be possible for you to pull the blinders off and still keep your justified hatred for the bulk of socialism/communism.  you can do it Leo.  i believe in you.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, @~thehung said:

because no political scientist worth their salt would argue that Social Democracy doesnt incorporate some elements of Socialism.

"No True Scotsman" alert.

 

Simple question. Name an element of socialism that originated within and is a central theme of socialism. Any one. And for bonus points, name a state that has implemented it.

Edited by Leonid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

🙂

Top of my head - Unionism and most every state, even non-socialist ones, have them, but if memory serves it began with socialist ideals.

Cheers

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×