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Kimmo

Bernie. fucken. SANDERS

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3 minutes ago, Kimmo said:

 

If I did, maybe I'd start a thread about it. You seem to think it's an essential component of socialism, which is risible, and plainly an effort to derail the thread.

 

Which is about Bernie.

Help Bernie.jpg

 

So you asked me if I wanted to talk about anti-semitism and linked a video where an old Jewish Socialist talks about anti-semitism being responsible in part for his politics.

And after being given quite copious amounts of staunch institutionalized left-wing anti-semitism, you say this thread is about Bernie to the exclusion of what makes Bernie, Bernie?

 

Uh?

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1 hour ago, Leonid said:

socialism needs authoritarianism and both need a class/political enemy.

 

d3943dc9-a264-402c-8b98-9b8def870d2b_scr

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Cute that you picked an actor of the exact ethnicity that is socialism's usual class enemy.

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3 hours ago, Leonid said:

If you’re someone who believes in human rights,  environmental protection and equality/fairness, then being a socialist or voting for them is akin to voting for Trump on the basis of his good manners in public.

 

What's your recommendation, then, Leo?  The Republicans (US) and NLP  (AU) seem to be well and truly on the path to robber barons and hereditary royalty.  The Greens... Man, sometimes they have their hearts in the right place, but often they're lunatics.  The Democrats (US) and ALP (AU) talk good and then do just the same as the first lot.  Oh, and then there's the US Libertarians, who seem to have forgotten their remit and and are now into "Tax is Theft" and "Fuck you, I'm ok".

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53 minutes ago, Cybes said:

What's your recommendation, then, Leo?

 

Examine the data at the top of page 4 of the thread. The world is getting richer as a function of center/center-right liberal economics.

 

The world is cleaner as a function of private hedge fund investment into newer energy forms.

 

The world is more fair to minorities as a function of the center and center right not dividing up everyone by economic class.

 

The world is healthier because center/center-right liberal economies can afford real health-care for their people, even if it's not perfect.

 

 

 

You should vote for whoever in your electorate best represents the above.

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5 minutes ago, Leonid said:

center/center-right liberal economies [...] You should vote for whoever in your electorate best represents the above.

 

I agree.  But all the major parties are NOT centrist, even if they claim to be.  ALL of the Western major parties atm are fairly hard right authoritarians.  If you know of any that aren't, please name them.

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8 minutes ago, Cybes said:

 

I agree.  But all the major parties are NOT centrist, even if they claim to be.  ALL of the Western major parties atm are fairly hard right authoritarians.  If you know of any that aren't, please name them.

 

No, that's true. Both parties in Australia represent a divide.

 

However, the party which best represents the center usually wins because the electorate tends to a given center all things considered.

 

In that sense, given the Liberal Party is Australia's most successful post-war party, and given it encompasses the largest centrist and center-right bloc in the parliament - that should be a good start.

 

However, if yoru local member is from the right wing of the party and you can't vote for him/her on the basis that it may be ok to vote for someone you don't like to get in the party that best represents the center - vote for an independent or a Labor Right faction member.

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3 minutes ago, Leonid said:

independent or a Labor Right

 

The Labor Left are still a long way right of centrist.

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44 minutes ago, Cybes said:

 

The Labor Left are still a long way right of centrist.

 

We might have different ideas of what centrist means.

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36 minutes ago, Leonid said:

 We might have different ideas of what centrist means.

 

Hohohohoho... 

 

I'll agree with Political Compass. The Greens are the party closest to the centre. 

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2 hours ago, Leonid said:

The world is getting richer as a function of center/center-right liberal economics.

 

The world is cleaner as a function of private hedge fund investment into newer energy forms.

 

The world is more fair to minorities as a function of the center and center right not dividing up everyone by economic class.

 

The world is healthier because center/center-right liberal economies can afford real health-care for their people, even if it's not perfect.

 

 

 

You should vote for whoever in your electorate best represents the above.

 

I love how I'm supposed to be the one who's completely out of touch with reality... 

 

Tell me, where does mass extinction fit into GDP figures before the horse has bolted? 

 

Neoliberal economics as a force for good, that's hilarious! 

 

Fucken hedge funds! My sainted aunt. Your madness is boundless; utterly rampant. 

 

Wow

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8 hours ago, Kimmo said:

Tell me, where does mass extinction fit into GDP figures before the horse has bolted? 

 

Definitely not into socialism.

8 hours ago, Kimmo said:

Neoliberal economics as a force for good, that's hilarious! 

 

Fucken hedge funds! My sainted aunt. Your madness is boundless; utterly rampant. 

 

Who has funded and angel/seed invested into new energy startups?

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🙂

 

And people wonder why I disapprove of preferential voting - damned minefield...

 

Cheers

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Kimmo said:

The Greens are the party closest to the centre. 

 

The Party that has sheltered and promoted Stalinists to the top echelons, took (and still takes) funding from the SEARCH Foundation (successor to CPA, itself funded by the Soviets) and has a faction that is growing called Left Renewal which aims to overthrow capitalism and as its foreign policy focuses almost entirely (to the exclusion of all else) on demonizing the Jewish state.

 

And has recently adopted the maxim that one of its MLCs was a criminally white male who was guilty of sexual assault despite being cleared by an independent panel.

 

Uh-uh. "Closest to the centre", if you're looking at the centre from the left of Stalin... maybe.

 

The entire party's ethos may be summarised with "Gender is fluid. Allahu Akbar. Believe women. Wakanda forever!"

 

Everything else appears to be anti-nuclear nimbyism and attempts to tax death, just to fuck people over one more time for good measure.

Edited by Leonid

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1 hour ago, Leonid said:

Uh-uh. "Closest to the centre", if you're looking at the centre from the left of Stalin... maybe.

 

They are closest to the centre. They aren't close to the centre. 

 

The major parties are far from the centre; that's the point, Einstein. 

aus2016.png

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30 minutes ago, Kimmo said:

 

They are closest to the centre. They aren't close to the centre. 

 

The major parties are far from the centre; that's the point, Einstein. 

aus2016.png

 

 

Useful... but not without its own problems. Every time I take the test, I get very damned close to dead center.

 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_Compass

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I just took the test again. Just so you see the point about how skewed it is.

 

You're either going to have to stick to your guns about the Greens being centrist or call me a lefty. Go ahead. It's one hell of a choice.

 

image.png.1b46f8c934850a34cf74b5a07ea149e2.png

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48 minutes ago, Leonid said:

You're either going to have to stick to your guns about the Greens being centrist or call me a lefty.

 

Well , now - that's enlightening.  I continue to think the multiaxis approach is leagues better than a simplistic left/right scale, but it's obvious that the way the quiz is arranged and scored is significantly wonky.

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Oh I dunno, I consistently come up bottom left three in three up - sounds about right 🙂

 

Cheers

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55 minutes ago, Cybes said:

 

Well , now - that's enlightening.  I continue to think the multiaxis approach is leagues better than a simplistic left/right scale, but it's obvious that the way the quiz is arranged and scored is significantly wonky.

 

It is. That quiz has some fucked up questions. And some that are pretty ambiguous.

 

As RationalWiki explains it - there are some questions where Ayn Rand would our-left a commie, yet it’s graded right.

 

Its a really useful quiz for relative views buts it’s not that great at absolutes.

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Your Political Compass

Economic Left/Right: -5.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.18

personalised chart

 

onoz ! i'm a bleeding heart lefty

 

who'da thunk it ?

 

 

but the current rabble of greens aren't getting my vote

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Posted (edited)

2.75 down and 4.75 to the left from the middle dot. I wanted to see a dot break down for each section. 

Edited by fliptopia

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I came out at about north east of scruffy's marker in the green but very centrist ... crikey though, one could manipulate that test result any way they cared to

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3 hours ago, eveln said:

one could manipulate that test result any way they cared to

 

There are very few of that sort of test one *can't* manipulate.  Self-awareness tests all rely on honesty.

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