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Leonid

Terror attack in NZ

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Bloody NRA, bunch of "right to bear arms" fanatics.

 

Cheers

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6 hours ago, Jeruselem said:

USA NRA has been busy spreading it's tentacles even in NZ

 

NZ government should refuse the scum visas on character grounds. 

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The news of the hour is a backlash to Jacinda Ardern's command for NZers to respond to the Islamic Call to Prayer.

Most comments I've seen believe she responded perfectly in the aftermath of this crime, but that this oversteps the mark and will be more divisive as she is literally telling non-Muslims to participate in Islamic prayer, whether they believe in one God, no God or an entirely different ethos. Another comment I saw said an Imam should have announced the call to prayer, and Ardern and/or others could attend to pay their respects. 

 

I'm inclined to agree.

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3 hours ago, Kimmo said:

 

NZ government should refuse the scum visas on character grounds. 

Why don't you give Jacinda a call and tell her. I'm sure she'd love to hear from you.

 

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1 hour ago, SacrificialNewt said:

Another comment I saw said an Imam should have announced the call to prayer, and Ardern and/or others could attend to pay their respects.

 

is this not exactly what happened?  she did not announce the call to prayer.

 

"Most comments I've seen believe she responded perfectly in the aftermath of this crime, but that this oversteps the mark and will be more divisive as she is literally telling non-Muslims to participate in Islamic prayer, whether they believe in one God, no God or an entirely different ethos"

 

i expect theres some truth that it will be divisive for a minority of non-islamophobic people.  i just dont think it matters much in the grand scheme.  because:-

 

1) i am sure we have had televised state funerals in this country drenched in all sorts of nutty Christian mumbo jumbo with sermons pitched at presumed believers — while everyone else has been expected to brush off their discomfort as a mark of respect, and done so with little trouble given the context.

 

2) this is a one-time-only ultimate fuck you to the aims of the perpetrator, and the good of that outweighs all else

 

 

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38 minutes ago, @~thehung said:

 

2) this is a one-time-only ultimate fuck you to the aims of the perpetrator, and the good of that outweighs all else

Had i been in NZ I would've attended, and meant it as a humble gesture of human connection ... but without the head scarf. I'd wear a hat instead

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I found what this lady had to say about the perp to be interesting.

She strikes me as being intelligent and articulate.

Been subbed to her for a while now.

 

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She is intelligent and articulate, and I understand all her points. However, I don't see that we can't live together peacefully. She points out what the media and government have done to divide us, and it's not like the environments we're living in ever occurred before industrialisation. We're in a period of trial and error with humanity. Mass slaughters have occurred regularly throughout history, in the name of war, colonisation, religion, revenge. It's only in the last 100 years that Western culture has advocated for human rights. It's only in the last 100 years that immigration has sought to meld societies. It's still a new concept relative to how fast society can adapt to it or see it as normal. I feel that *most* of the population can live harmoniously so long as their own culture is not forced to change, and that they do not become a demonised minority.

 

What I can't see changing, is the mentality of the few who value money and power over the rights of others. 

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2 hours ago, SacrificialNewt said:

We're in a period of trial and error with humanity.

It's a fucking looooooooooooooooong trial.

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Unfortunately the entire human race has little to no record of living in peace in fact we managed to survive the most violent century in terms of death, the 20th, only by the skin of our teeth and this one is shaping up no better, probably worse in terms of number of wars.

 

Cheers

 

 

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People talk about not being able to change human nature, but it's crap.

 

Human nature is animal nature, and also culture.

 

Animal nature is relatively static, but even that changes - only at the speed of evolution though, or maybe much faster with genetic engineering, but never mind that.

 

But the action is with culture, which changes faster than many would like, but arguably not fast enough to keep pace with technological development (which is kind of a subset of culture, or possibly the reverse if you like, but that's getting a bit fractal).

 

Anyway, when it comes to complex systems like societies, shit can just flip as one state of relative equilibrium gives way to another; it's what you get when you have shitloads of interdependent nested positive and negative feedback loops. Chaotic phenomena.

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4 hours ago, eveln said:

It's a fucking looooooooooooooooong trial.

Well compared to the history of humans it's a blink really. A lot of things have changed comparatively quickly. 

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1 hour ago, Kimmo said:

Chaotic phenomena

 

I wonder how long you'd have to wait for this to happen...

 

 

Reality is weirder than you think.

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51 minutes ago, Kimmo said:

 

I wonder how long you'd have to wait for this to happen...

 

 

Reality is weirder than you think.

🙂

 

It would be, various occupants of this forum occupy it - sometimes  🙂

 

Cheers

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Jacinda Ardern's speech at the Christchurch memorial: 

Quote

 

E rau rangatira mā, e ngā reo, e ngā mana. Tēnā koutou katoa.

(I acknowledge amongst us today our distinguished leaders, speakers and those who bear authority.)

 

Ngāi Tahu Whānui, tēnā koutou.

(My greetings to the whole of Ngāi Tahu.)

 

E papaki tū ana ngā tai o maumahara ki runga o Ōtautahi.

(The tides of remembrance flow over Christchurch today.)

 

Haere mai tātou me te aroha, me te rangimārie, ki te whānau nei, e ora mārire ai anō rātau, e ora mārire ai anō, tātou katoa.

(So let us gather with love, in peace, for this family, so that they may truly live again, so that we all may truly live again.)

 

We gather here, 14 days on from our darkest of hours. In the days that have followed the terrorist attack on the 15th of March, we have often found ourselves without words.

 

What words adequately express the pain and suffering of 50 men, women and children lost, and so many injured? What words capture the anguish of our Muslim community being the target of hatred and violence? What words express the grief of a city that has already known so much pain?

 

I thought there were none. And then I came here and was met with this simple greeting. Asalamu Aleykum. Peace be upon you.

 

They were simple words, repeated by community leaders who witnessed the loss of their friends and loved ones. Simple words, whispered by the injured from their hospital beds. Simple words, spoken by the bereaved and everyone I met who has been affected by this attack.

 

Asalamu Aleykum. Peace be upon you.

 

They were words spoken by a community who, in the face of hate and violence, had every right to express anger but instead opened their doors for all of us to grieve with them. And so we say to those who have lost the most, we may not have always had the words.

 

We may have left flowers, performed the haka, sung songs or simply embraced. But even when we had no words, we still heard yours, and they have left us humbled and they have left us united.

 

Over the past two weeks we have heard the stories of those impacted by this terrorist attack. They were stories of bravery. They were stories of those who were born here, grew up here, or who had made New Zealand their home. Who had sought refuge, or sought a better life for themselves or their families.

These stories, they now form part of our collective memories. They will remain with us forever. They are us.

 

But with that memory comes a responsibility. A responsibility to be the place that we wish to be. A place that is diverse, that is welcoming, that is kind and compassionate. Those values represent the very best of us.

 

But even the ugliest of viruses can exist in places they are not welcome. Racism exists, but it is not welcome here. An assault on the freedom of any one of us who practices their faith or religion, is not welcome here. Violence, and extremism in all its forms, is not welcome here. And over the last two weeks we have shown that, you have shown that, in your actions.

 

From the thousands at vigils to the 95 year old man who took four buses to attend a rally because he couldn’t sleep from the sadness of seeing the hurt and suffering of others. Our challenge now is to make the very best of us, a daily reality.

 

Because we are not immune to the viruses of hate, of fear, of other. We never have been. But we can be the nation that discovers the cure.

 

And so to each of us as we go from here, we have work to do, but do not leave the job of combatting hate to the government alone. We each hold the power, in our words and in our actions, in our daily acts of kindness. Let that be the legacy of the 15th of March. To be the nation we believe ourselves to be.

 

To the global community who have joined us today, who reached out to embrace New Zealand, and our Muslim community, to all of those who have gathered here today, we say thank you.

 

And we also ask that the condemnation of violence and terrorism turns now to a collective response. The world has been stuck in a vicious cycle of extremism breeding extremism and it must end.

 

We cannot confront these issues alone, none of us can. But the answer to them lies in a simple concept that is not bound by domestic borders, that isn’t based on ethnicity, power base or even forms of governance. The answer lies in our humanity.

 

But for now, we will remember those who have left this place. We will remember the first responders who gave so much of themselves to save others.

We will remember the tears of our nation, and the new resolve we have formed.

 

And we remember, that ours is a home that does not and cannot claim perfection. But we can strive to be true to the words embedded in our national anthem:

 

Men of every creed and race,
Gather here before Thy face,
Asking Thee to bless this place
God defend our free land

 

From dissension, envy, hate
And corruption, guard our state
Make our country good and great
God defend New Zealand

 

Tātou Tātou

 

Asalamu Aleykum

 

[standing ovation]

 

 

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Oh yeah, and Yusuf Islam played Peace Train. 

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