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fliptopia

Soul

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Do you think there is a soul as a separate entity from our bodies? If so, then how do you think it works? Does it help with decision making (like being your true self) or is it like a distilled essence of you after you die and your brain just does it all while you're alive? 

 

Personally I'm a no soul and this is just it type of person but I like hearing different theories. 

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I like soul music, especially northern soul. Which is ironic considering I don't believe in the metaphysical construct.

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2 hours ago, fliptopia said:

I'm a no soul and this is just it

 

^This.

 

Part of me wants there to be one, because 70-100 years just doesn't feel like enough; but a much larger part wants very badly for there not to be an eternity of *anything*, because no matter what it starts off being it's going to swiftly become boredom.  Fortunately for my peace of mind, I am not even slightly convinced of there even being a possibility of a soul, let alone any particular religion's version of one.

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we are just physical beings

we are born, we live, we die

what remains when we die is the memories of those we touched during out lives

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2 hours ago, Cybes said:

 

^This.

 

Part of me wants there to be one, because 70-100 years just doesn't feel like enough; but a much larger part wants very badly for there not to be an eternity of *anything*, because no matter what it starts off being it's going to swiftly become boredom.  Fortunately for my peace of mind, I am not even slightly convinced of there even being a possibility of a soul, let alone any particular religion's version of one.

 

I'm ok with the 70-100 years bit. I'd be even happier to know I had several goes at it and see if I had improved. If each time you went in blind apart from 2 or 3 thoughts you could implant in yourself before you go try again and you keep refining what they are. 

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1 hour ago, fliptopia said:

 

I'm ok with the 70-100 years bit. I'd be even happier to know I had several goes at it and see if I had improved. If each time you went in blind apart from 2 or 3 thoughts you could implant in yourself before you go try again and you keep refining what they are. 

 

Truth be told, I'm actually fine with a lifespan potentially as large as the lifespan of the universe, but there has to be something interesting or fun (in some way new, iow) or a way out if you run out of reasons to stick around.  I don't think I could find things interesting for that long, but ye never know.  Even lasting until Heat Death, though, is not ETERNITY.

 

And what you're talking about seems to be pretty traditional reincarnation.  Believers in that, at least as I understand it, also advocate for "getting off the Wheel".

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At first glance, the question seems pretty simple; Occam's razor and all that... Despite my fundamental stance of agnosticism, I always leaned to the materialist perspective. Dualism just seems kinda redundant, and looks exactly like wishful thinking. 

 

But after some DMT experiences, I'm more on the fence. Who knows. 

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I don't know what a soul is, but I think TMFP has it about right with  ... " what remains when we die is the memories of those we touched during out lives " ... just depends on how firm a ' touch ' that is as to how long we remain.

What does stump me, is people with talents of a seemingly natural / spontaneous occurrence ... almost like they've somehow collected the skills of another past being or somesuch << but not even sure that's at all related to " soul " either

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my thoughts are that what might be a soul is the resonance we create and leave behind in the universe, which may well be influenced by the resonance of all those who came before us, and may well influence those who come after us

 

as such, it exists for eternity, and will radiate into the universe for as long as it lasts

 

as for immortality - anyone who has ever known us and remembers is just that, for a brief period in the long view of reality

 

any of our thoughts or influence perpetuates that existence

 

 

although it somewhat worries me that my offsprings' disposable nappies in landfill will have longevity to outlast my immediate progeny by at least a generation  😞

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1 hour ago, scruffy1 said:

 

although it somewhat worries me that my offsprings' disposable nappies in landfill will have longevity to outlast my immediate progeny by at least a generation  😞

growing up in a large family I recall the lidded bucket with napisan ( I think it was called ) for the towelling nappies we all had, ( and some of our number still were ) using .

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20 hours ago, scruffy1 said:

as such, it exists for eternity

 

This prompted me to remember that as far as physics is concerned, our perception of time seems to be skewed, or impoverished, or somehow just wrong, by apparently inferring too much from causes preceding effects, and to consider that weird implications like each moment sort of always being a thing probably haven't contributed enough to our metaphysical musings. 

 

It's always seemed like a pretty good idea to me to base any such extrapolations into the unknowable on the most informed view of what we know. 

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I'm on the same train with TMFP and what appears to be everyone else so far. 

 

I see the belief system as a spectrum. On that spectrum I'm on the far edge of agnosticism before it tips into atheism. I feel that true atheism is unscientific. None of us knows the truth for sure, despite some people espousing that they do. 

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So do you have free will and to what extent. I'd say we are free to make decisions but in any singular exact circumstance, there is only one decision we would ever make in that particular moment. 

 

I can't see any way around that really without non-biological soul. 

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11 hours ago, fliptopia said:

So do you have free will and to what extent. I'd say we are free to make decisions but in any singular exact circumstance, there is only one decision we would ever make in that particular moment. 

 

I can't see any way around that really without non-biological soul. 

 

Our subconscious has already decided what we'll do before we are even aware of it, however we are capable of training our subconscious to follow a different path in a given situation.

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Absolutely we learn from everything that happens to us. We form beliefs and act according to what we believe. Often weighing one belief against another. In the end though, in an exact situation we will make one decision based upon everything we have experienced, our brain chemistry and what we perceive is happening around us.

 

This does not absolve us of having to make a decision. The decision is not knowable (ok you could probably guess a lot of decisions people will make) by anyone due to the impossibly complex number of variables. So you still have to weigh everything up in your head. Sometimes pitting what you know about something against what you believe will be the better action overall but the weight you give to each argument stems from your beliefs and noone gets to choose their beliefs. 

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7 minutes ago, fliptopia said:

 noone gets to choose their beliefs. 

 

i disagree strongly

ones beliefs are shaped by your experiences, you can choose to learn or not

 

as a teen, I thought gays were icky, thus homosexuals deserved no rights

in my 20s I realised that nobody would choose to be gay, you were born that way. so if a person had no choice to be gay then they had the same rights as everybody else

 

I choose to change the way I thought

 

 

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55 minutes ago, TheManFromPOST said:

 

i disagree strongly

ones beliefs are shaped by your experiences, you can choose to learn or not

 

as a teen, I thought gays were icky, thus homosexuals deserved no rights

in my 20s I realised that nobody would choose to be gay, you were born that way. so if a person had no choice to be gay then they had the same rights as everybody else

 

I choose to change the way I thought

 

 

 

But the way I see it is that this other way of thinking about gay people made more sense to you presented as it was and then filtered through your belief system and your belief was updated because you could no longer believe the former in light of the latter. 

 

Beliefs are updated all the time. I used to strongly believe in a christian god until the weight of evidence against it that my "belief filter" would give credit to became so much I could no longer hold that belief. 

 

I think in our heads it feels like everything feels like you have an either/or and in one respect you do. But I'd say it's just you filtering everything through your beliefs systems to see if you agree or disagree with new information. 

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19 minutes ago, fliptopia said:

 

I think in our heads it feels like everything feels like you have an either/or and in one respect you do. But I'd say it's just you filtering everything through your beliefs systems to see if you agree or disagree with new information. 

 

What is annoying is when the other side has better arguments

 

Take the abortion issue, I am for abortion (on demand, first trimester. not necessarily so in the third trimester)

but I will admit, the anti-abortion people have a better argument

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53 minutes ago, TheManFromPOST said:

 

What is annoying is when the other side has better arguments

 

Take the abortion issue, I am for abortion (on demand, first trimester. not necessarily so in the third trimester)

but I will admit, the anti-abortion people have a better argument

 

I *think* in situations like that there is a weighing up of what it will cost you emotionally (and potentially socially) for you to give up one belief for the other. Areas of what define parts of who you are or your moral code are the hardest to break. 

 

I think you can also hold a belief they have a better argument but at the same time that there is something you haven't properly articulated for your side and that thing is potentially more important or it's more important to act in a certain way. For example you could have someone claim they were raped by a friend. You may believe your friend innocent and incapable of such an act but at the same time believe it is important to follow due process and show belief for all women coming forward with rape claims. 

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8 hours ago, TheManFromPOST said:

the anti-abortion people have a better argument

 

How so?

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1 hour ago, Cybes said:

 

How so?

please remember, this is not my argument

 

at what point does it become a person, rather than a glob of cells (or when does it gain a soul [hey, we are on topic])?

a heart forms and can pump blood,

a brain forms and a nervous system develops

or do you consider it to have rights from the moment of conception ?

 

too many questions that I personally dont have an answer for

is a glob of cells a person? no

after 36 weeks of gestation (and there are no health issues), should abortions be allowed? no

 

I don't know where the right cut off point is

 

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14 minutes ago, TheManFromPOST said:

please remember, this is not my argument

 

at what point does it become a person, rather than a glob of cells (or when does it gain a soul [hey, we are on topic])?

a heart forms and can pump blood,

a brain forms and a nervous system develops

or do you consider it to have rights from the moment of conception ?

 

too many questions that I personally dont have an answer for

is a glob of cells a person? no

after 36 weeks of gestation (and there are no health issues), should abortions be allowed? no

 

I don't know where the right cut off point is

 

 

The cutoff point is highly subjective and dependent on the health of both mother and baby. Personally, I think the parent should have a right to late term abortions if the baby is shown to have problems that will seriously affect the well being of baby and/or the family that will be otherwise caring for it. However, even I  the pro-choice advocate, would have serious ethical questions about it in the third trimester. Besides, many serious conditions either can't be diagnosed by ultrasound or seem to happen during the birth process. 

 

In a perfect world, there would be no accidental pregnancies because people would be more pro-active in preventing them, but they will continue to occur and the world has enough people in it already.

 

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14 minutes ago, SacrificialNewt said:

 

 the world has enough people in it already.

 

actually no, it does not

farmers are more efficient than they were 30 years ago, so we can grow more food, feed more people

 

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3 hours ago, TheManFromPOST said:

I don't know where the right cut off point is

 

3 hours ago, SacrificialNewt said:

The cutoff point is highly subjective

 

Indeed it is, Newt.  Personally, I'm of the opinion that point is just about where miscarriage becomes 'premature birth' - ie: it has even a chance of surviving outside of the womb.

 

Thankfully, the decision is not mine to make, and never will be.  A large proportion of the women I've known who have had an abortion either regret it completely, or suffer a large amount of remorse.  A large portion of those who probably should have considered it, but went ahead with the pregnancy because of beliefs, have *also* had regrets and/or remorse, though.  The choice is obviously not one to be made lightly.

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