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NZT48

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49 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

For a start Jesus Christ is meant to be fact

 

So, like Santa?

 

50 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

Little Red Riding Hood is supposed to be fiction

 

So exactly like Jesus Christ then?

 

52 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

Over half the world's population believes in Jesus Christ

 

Actually it’s less than half. Which means more than half the world’s population does NOT believe in Jesus Christ.

 

54 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

Many have seen visions of JC. There are many JC-related miracles. I reckon you are capable of adequate research.

 

I reckon I am. Delusion is a terrible thing and miracles don’t happen.

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2 hours ago, NZT48 said:

For a start Jesus Christ is meant to be fact and Little Red Riding Hood is supposed to be fiction like I said earlier. Over half the world's population believes in Jesus Christ (combining Christians and Muslims) whereas I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who believes the tale of LRRH. Many have seen visions of JC. There are many JC-related miracles. I reckon you are capable of adequate research.

 

No one.

If it's a popularity contest, more people  believe Jesus wasn't a god than do.

Also, if noone is begging the question, why even mention begging the question?

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Sorry for taking so long to reply.

 

On 8/4/2019 at 9:49 PM, Nich... said:

Good point DMB.  Let's compare Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha.  Which of those was real and which was telling the truth?  How many books have to agree for it to be true?

I don't know enough about Mohammed or Buddha to properly comment. Truth is not determined by the number of books what agree.

 

On 8/9/2019 at 5:36 PM, TheManFromPOST said:

OK, but what have you DONE?

I created this thread.

On 8/9/2019 at 5:36 PM, TheManFromPOST said:

But there is no proof that there ever was this man

What research have you done?

 

There is no proof that here is no proof that there ever was this man.

 

 

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On 8/9/2019 at 6:23 PM, Leonid said:

So, like Santa?

No. Santa is lies for children.

On 8/9/2019 at 6:23 PM, Leonid said:

So exactly like Jesus Christ then?

No. Jesus Christ is supposed to be fact.

On 8/9/2019 at 6:23 PM, Leonid said:

Actually it’s less than half.

What is your source? Two or three quick Googles says it is more than half. 

On 8/9/2019 at 6:23 PM, Leonid said:

Which means more than half the world’s population does NOT believe in Jesus Christ.

That depends on what you mean me "believe in". They may not follow or have faith yet believe he existed.

On 8/9/2019 at 6:23 PM, Leonid said:

I reckon I am.

Then I suggest you do it.

On 8/9/2019 at 6:23 PM, Leonid said:

Delusion is a terrible thing and miracles don’t happen.

It's not delusion and miracles happen.

 

On 8/9/2019 at 8:07 PM, Nich... said:

Also, if noone is begging the question, why even mention begging the question?

Because Leonid's question begs the question. I think you already knew that though so why persist?

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JC is is is supposed to be fact?  How do you know, if books saying so in agreement isn't enough?  If consensus belief doesn't define truth, why does it matter if half the world, give or take, believe in JC?

Also, are you aware what begging the question actually is?  I have my doubts, if you think Leo was begging the question but you were not.

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It''s an interesting controversy but there is pretty good evidence that he did live:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-historical-evidence-that-jesus-christ-lived-and-died

 

Whether he did anything more than create a minor cult following some of whom wrote about him after his death and by extension created a second book of the Bible that did not involve endless death and destruction - that's a different story....

 

History is a lens of distortion, one that may disappear as we become so obsessively recorded, or it might start again if we suddenly encounter the next apocalypse.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

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On 8/14/2019 at 4:58 PM, NZT48 said:

Santa is lies for children.

 

And if adults believed in Santa the factual basis for Santa is similar to the factual basis for Jesus.

 

On 8/14/2019 at 4:58 PM, NZT48 said:

Jesus Christ is supposed to be fact.

 

Lots of things are supposed to be fact, but aren’t. For example, for the longest time it was fact that the sun rotated around the Earth.

 

On 8/14/2019 at 4:58 PM, NZT48 said:

What is your source? Two or three quick Googles says it is more than half. 

 

My source is maths.

Not all who are listed as Christians believe in Jesus’ divinity or existence. Likewise for Muslims.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

 

On 8/14/2019 at 4:58 PM, NZT48 said:

They may not follow or have faith yet believe he existed.

 

People who don’t have faith don’t tend to believe fairy tales like the bible as sources of truth.

 

On 8/14/2019 at 4:58 PM, NZT48 said:

Then I suggest you do it.

 

I have. And I put it back to you again: there are two competing versions of Little Red Riding Hood as there are two competing versions of Jesus.

What makes Jesus real and LRRH not?

 

On 8/14/2019 at 4:58 PM, NZT48 said:

It's not delusion and miracles happen.

 

Occam’s Razor posits otherwise.

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On 8/14/2019 at 5:34 PM, Nich... said:

JC is is is supposed to be fact?

Yes.

On 8/14/2019 at 5:34 PM, Nich... said:

How do you know, if books saying so in agreement isn't enough?

I saw a vision of Christ, God told me to tell people Jesus lives,  it makes sense, and my prayers have been answered.

On 8/14/2019 at 5:34 PM, Nich... said:

If consensus belief doesn't define truth, why does it matter if half the world, give or take, believe in JC?

Evidence can be pointful without being proof and it was a comparison with Little Red Riding Hood.

On 8/14/2019 at 5:34 PM, Nich... said:

Also, are you aware what begging the question actually is?

Maybe not; sorry. I wanted to communicate the equivalent of "begets the question".

 

On 8/16/2019 at 11:28 AM, Leonid said:

And if adults believed in Santa the factual basis for Santa is similar to the factual basis for Jesus.

Wrong again.

On 8/16/2019 at 11:28 AM, Leonid said:

Lots of things are supposed to be fact, but aren’t. For example, for the longest time it was fact that the sun rotated around the Earth.

I know.

On 8/16/2019 at 11:28 AM, Leonid said:

My source is maths.

Not all who are listed as Christians believe in Jesus’ divinity or existence. Likewise for Muslims.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

I read that. "maths" is not a source. Show me where you got the numbers from to do this "maths".

On 8/16/2019 at 11:28 AM, Leonid said:

People who don’t have faith don’t tend to believe fairy tales like the bible as sources of truth.

The Bible is not a fairy tale and people who believe Jesus Christ existed don't necessarily believe what the Bible says.

On 8/16/2019 at 11:28 AM, Leonid said:

I have.

You haven't.

On 8/16/2019 at 11:28 AM, Leonid said:

And I put it back to you again: there are two competing versions of Little Red Riding Hood as there are two competing versions of Jesus.

What makes Jesus real and LRRH not?

I already answered that. The answer hasn't changed.

On 8/16/2019 at 11:28 AM, Leonid said:

Occam’s Razor posits otherwise.

Nonsense.

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You saw a vision eh?  And unlike all the other people seeing visions, yours was real because your vision told you to believe in the book that says its real?

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lol. but that up there just hurts my eyes ... not actually tried to read it yet

13 minutes ago, NZT48 said:

The Bible is not a fairy tale and people who believe Jesus Christ existed don't necessarily believe what the Bible says.

This bit seems almost real

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Jesus demonstrably does not love me. 

 

The biggest issue is that you will either believe the story or not believe the story. Some christians seem to think a genuine search for a god always leads to the right one but this is fairly easy to show as false. Others tell me that faith is a blessing and you just have to be happy you got it. So the first one doesn't make sense as I tried to keep faith and make it all make sense and the second one means he doesn't love me enough to stop me burning in hell for eternity because he took my faith. 

 

If there is a christian god out there it/he has to be either

a: indifferent to an awfully large number of people

b: is beholden to some higher power 

😄 does not exist or

d: is an arsehole

 

None of those really fit with a top dog god who cares for every person individually. The fact that a creator of all life/things in the universe can't have every person getting an equal chance at redemption means he doesn't love everyone equally and maybe some not at all. This is a being that should be able to do what he likes but leaves the whole eternal happiness of your soul on your understanding a faulty book and a bunch of hearsay (if you aren't one of the lucky vision winners). 

 

What a guy. 

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14 hours ago, NZT48 said:

 

I saw a vision of Christ, God told me to tell people Jesus lives,  it makes sense, and my prayers have been answered.

 

 

Pity you, or anyone else, has never prayed for world peace

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4 hours ago, fliptopia said:

Jesus demonstrably does not love me. 

 

The biggest issue is that you will either believe the story or not believe the story. Some christians seem to think a genuine search for a god always leads to the right one but this is fairly easy to show as false. Others tell me that faith is a blessing and you just have to be happy you got it. So the first one doesn't make sense as I tried to keep faith and make it all make sense and the second one means he doesn't love me enough to stop me burning in hell for eternity because he took my faith. 

 

If there is a christian god out there it/he has to be either

a: indifferent to an awfully large number of people

b: is beholden to some higher power 

😄 does not exist or

d: is an arsehole

 

None of those really fit with a top dog god who cares for every person individually. The fact that a creator of all life/things in the universe can't have every person getting an equal chance at redemption means he doesn't love everyone equally and maybe some not at all. This is a being that should be able to do what he likes but leaves the whole eternal happiness of your soul on your understanding a faulty book and a bunch of hearsay (if you aren't one of the lucky vision winners). 

 

What a guy. 

 

What if the being that created the whole damn universe is just a scientist with a penchant for long range research ... the point of which is to see how long we and the universe survive ? 

It would explain the wanton lack of empathy you describe as well as anything else might. And justify the lack of interfering with the likes of Pol Pot, Hitler, and all the nasty scum that think mutilating our babies and fucking our children is a great way to grow our humans ...

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2 hours ago, eveln said:

What if the being that created the whole damn universe is just a scientist with a penchant for long range research ... the point of which is to see how long we and the universe survive ? 

It would explain the wanton lack of empathy you describe as well as anything else might. And justify the lack of interfering with the likes of Pol Pot, Hitler, and all the nasty scum that think mutilating our babies and fucking our children is a great way to grow our humans ...

Any deistic interpretation of a God is basically an admission that God is irrelevant.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Nich... said:

Any deistic interpretation of a God is basically an admission that God is irrelevant.

... or, just an intepretation chosen by some 😉

I mean, I've no reason to believe one theory over another tbh. I was merely trying to offer some sort of reasoning to fliptopia's um disgust 

Edited by eveln

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3 hours ago, eveln said:

What if the being that created the whole damn universe is just a scientist with a penchant for long range research ... the point of which is to see how long we and the universe survive ? 

It would explain the wanton lack of empathy you describe as well as anything else might. And justify the lack of interfering with the likes of Pol Pot, Hitler, and all the nasty scum that think mutilating our babies and fucking our children is a great way to grow our humans ...

 

That's option a but the number increases to everyone. Of course that's not the christian god. 

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1 hour ago, fliptopia said:

 

That's option a but the number increases to everyone. Of course that's not the christian god. 

 But but the scientific creator might well be Christian as well as a scientist ... But a scientist first 😉

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, eveln said:

 But but the scientific creator might well be Christian as well as a scientist ... But a scientist first 😉

 

Maybe you solved everything then. 😛 Someone notify the Vatican and let them know.

Edited by fliptopia

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Posted (edited)

I know right ?! just too fucken easy

 

8 hours ago, TheManFromPOST said:

Pity you, or anyone else, has never prayed for world peace

 

Oh I reckon they pray for that . The kicker is they want world peace with their rules only ... I reckon that's what nixes the prayers

Edited by eveln
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Sorry for the delay in responding.

 

On 8/23/2019 at 7:40 PM, Nich... said:

You saw a vision eh?  And unlike all the other people seeing visions, yours was real because your vision told you to believe in the book that says its real?

Yes; I saw a vision. Why do you think all visions are not real?

 

On 8/24/2019 at 6:21 AM, fliptopia said:

Jesus demonstrably does not love me. 

 

The biggest issue is that you will either believe the story or not believe the story. Some christians seem to think a genuine search for a god always leads to the right one but this is fairly easy to show as false. Others tell me that faith is a blessing and you just have to be happy you got it. So the first one doesn't make sense as I tried to keep faith and make it all make sense and the second one means he doesn't love me enough to stop me burning in hell for eternity because he took my faith. 

 

If there is a christian god out there it/he has to be either

a: indifferent to an awfully large number of people-2

b: is beholden to some higher power 

😄 does not exist or

d: is an arsehole

 

None of those really fit with a top dog god who cares for every person individually. The fact that a creator of all life/things in the universe can't have every person getting an equal chance at redemption means he doesn't love everyone equally and maybe some not at all. This is a being that should be able to do what he likes but leaves the whole eternal happiness of your soul on your understanding a faulty book and a bunch of hearsay (if you aren't one of the lucky vision winners). 

 

What a guy. 

How do you know a genuine search for God doesn't always lead to the right one? God's will isn't necessarily done instantly so maybe it is a matter of time.

The Bible says God is impartial (Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11; Psalm 98:9) and I believe it to be true.

I do not believe understanding The Bible is a prerequisite for eternal life.

Jesus loves you. I am sure of it.

 

On 8/24/2019 at 10:14 AM, TheManFromPOST said:

Pity you, or anyone else, has never prayed for world peace

Jesus said blessed are the peacemakers (Matthew 5:9). I think we should try to make peace but we can't take away others' God-given free will.

 

On 9/9/2019 at 10:20 PM, Nich... said:

Change my mind.

About or from what?

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10 hours ago, NZT48 said:

How do you know a genuine search for God doesn't always lead to the right one? God's will isn't necessarily done instantly so maybe it is a matter of time.

The Bible says God is impartial (Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11; Psalm 98:9) and I believe it to be true.

I do not believe understanding The Bible is a prerequisite for eternal life.

Jesus loves you. I am sure of it.

 

From a personal standpoint I prayed and read and asked others from the point of view of trying to hold on to faith. Thought there was something I was missing. It didn't hold true for me at all. The more I searched the more the whole thing fell apart. 

 

The time since then, reading more about human psychology, I've come to understand better that people can see the same stuff and come to 2 (or more) completely different conclusions. It's not about stupid or smart or genuine or disingenuous but just your rain make up plus experiences that are your filter. You will believe what ever you believe. 

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