aliali 445 Posted November 12, 2019 59 minutes ago, eveln said: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-12/barnaby-joyce-greens-council-bushfire-victims/11696654 About what you would expect from that total oxygen thief. Not one iota of compassion or empathy in that man. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eveln 1,380 Posted November 12, 2019 46 minutes ago, aliali said: 1 hour ago, eveln said: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-12/barnaby-joyce-greens-council-bushfire-victims/11696654 About what you would expect from that total oxygen thief. Not one iota of compassion or empathy in that man. I thought it was cute the title focused on Joyce when if you read the article it's actually chock-full of oxygen thieves ... I guess Barney pulls the reader .lol. It did me cos, well, I thought he was buried in babyland Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leonid 615 Posted November 12, 2019 That’s a new low. It’s one thing to correctly blame the Greens for policies and pressure tactics on Labor that make sensible threat management an impossibility unless one party has outright control of both houses. It’s quite another to presume that someone who died was a Greens supporter and therefore presumably deserved being burned to death. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fenn 142 Posted November 12, 2019 I've had a mutual acquaintance inform me that yes, one of the deceased most likely would have voted Green. Completely beside the point - it was a disgusting thing to imply. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eveln 1,380 Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) I'm the daughter of a CFA volunteer . I spent my childhood celebrating xmas and spring / summer with one parent for the special occasions. All family holidays happened in winter. Even as a kid we were aware of the idea of picking up as much dead wood as we could. We would use it whilst camping and would bring a hefty load back home with us. Of course we were only one family, but I figured it must be the norm for all country folk to behave similarly ... how wrong was I 8 minutes ago, Leonid said: It’s quite another to presume that someone who died was a Greens supporter and therefore presumably deserved being burned to death. Crikey I'm sticking up for Barnaby ! Really though, he didn't actually say they deserved to burn ...ffs Edited November 12, 2019 by eveln layout of merging posts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leonid 615 Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) Well no. No he didn’t. But it’s a really shitty thing to say nonetheless. Something more intelligent might have been - it’s likely the two lives lost were Greens voters and I think it about time the Greens Party started educating their voters in balancing their environmental considerations with the understanding that people live in the environment and that in the absence of any hope of averting climate change, sensible countermeasures need to be taken so that people don’t die in wholly predictable events in Australia’s outback. Edited November 12, 2019 by Leonid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
datafast69 95 Posted November 12, 2019 Uses a tragedy for political gain/manipulation/point scoring, Barnaby sux. 30 minutes ago, Leonid said: that in the absence of any hope of averting climate change It's a choice, the absence is a stance of choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fliptopia 500 Posted November 12, 2019 Not just Barnaby. Everyone politically point scoring while there are fires everywhere is a shithead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leonid 615 Posted November 12, 2019 8 hours ago, datafast69 said: Uses a tragedy for political gain/manipulation/point scoring, Barnaby sux. It's a choice, the absence is a stance of choice. It’s not a choice. If Australia went to zero carbon tomorrow, it would have a net zero effect on climate change trends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leonid 615 Posted November 12, 2019 I think I’ve explained it before, but I’ll do it again. There’s a half-full swimming pool. The pool represents the carbon sink capacity of the planet. The water represents GHGs. There’s an open fire hydrant into the pool. The water coming out of the hydrant into the pool is China’s growing GHG emissions. Richard Di Natale walks up to the pool, dips in a tea cup and solemnly carries away one cup of water. Australia is now emitting zero GHGs. The Greens are celebrating. Everyone else remains puzzled at the Greens as there’s an open fire hydrant into the pool and removing one cup of water does not make any difference whatsoever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fliptopia 500 Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) But as long as the Western world says it's a china/India issue so we don't need to do anything, China and India just say we don't take it seriously so why should they and everyone has a big do nothing effective stand off. Also I'll mention thorium and save chrisg a post I already missed "it's a china issue" to save Leonid from his. Edited November 12, 2019 by fliptopia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
datafast69 95 Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Leonid said: It’s not a choice. If Australia went to zero carbon tomorrow, it would have a net zero effect on climate change trends. It's not an Australian problem, It's a world problem, to narrow the view of it is just a way to justify doing nothing. And the old worn "but if they don't do it too!" is another cop out that is often used to justify changing nothing, our governments and some others (Trump/White House) are so short sighted on this matter, well, Trump is also deluded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeruselem 989 Posted November 12, 2019 Don't expect rain over there anytime soon, because the weather gods aren't helping https://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/intense-dry-spell-across-australia-set-to-persist-into-summer-20191112-p539xc.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1573594150 What climate analysts call the Indian Ocean Dipole (IOD) - the temperature differences between the western and eastern Indian Ocean - has been in that rain-suppressing or "positive mode" since May. And while it has lately eased back, the levels remain near their highest in at least two decades. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisg 761 Posted November 13, 2019 I don't think that is really the point Leo. China and India have started massive tree planting initiatives to counterbalance their GHG generation and are investing big time into Thorium research. Further we do not know quite enough about the subject yet and how the Intertropical Convergence Zone affects the broad distribution of GHGs at higher altitudes. We do know that the affect of the zone did little to stop CFCs from global mingling, in fact tended to swirl them south but we cannot be certain that the same applies to CO2 and CH4. China is north of the zone, India is as well. It also may not matter, whilst the GHGs might in fact stay north they still can be expected to affect global temperature which is immune to zonal effects. Be that as it may every little does help, including planting carbon sinks. In I hope better news my Bro is on his way out it is a lot clearer at Pt McQuarie today. Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leonid 615 Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, datafast69 said: It's not an Australian problem, It's a world problem, to narrow the view of it is just a way to justify doing nothing. And the old worn "but if they don't do it too!" is another cop out that is often used to justify changing nothing, our governments and some others (Trump/White House) are so short sighted on this matter, well, Trump is also deluded. All of that sounds like pissing into the wind for that is what you’d be doing if you pretend we (Australia) can do something to stop climate change. Because global climate change is a China problem. All western states are either not increasing emissions or slowly dropping. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leonid 615 Posted November 13, 2019 23 minutes ago, chrisg said: China and India have started massive tree planting initiatives to counterbalance their GHG generation Fake news. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeruselem 989 Posted November 13, 2019 Tip of the day, don't drop ya bloody ciggies in a bushfire area! https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-13/binna-burra-fire-an-accident-teenagers-discarded-cigarettes/11699474 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leonid 615 Posted November 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jeruselem said: Tip of the day, don't drop ya bloody ciggies in a bushfire area! https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-13/binna-burra-fire-an-accident-teenagers-discarded-cigarettes/11699474 And some call for the voting age to be lowered.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeruselem 989 Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Leonid said: And some call for the voting age to be lowered.... Dunno, armed forces living firing during bushfire season as well. You know our military idiots ... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-12/gold-coast-hinterland-bushfires-believed-to-be-sparked-by-adf/11694280 Key points: A senior ADF officer from Kokoda Barracks said "it is entirely possible" a small fire started during exercises reignited and led to a dangerous fire at the weekend Some residents are appalled the army was engaging in live ammunition training in the weeks leading up to the blaze One resident, who lost a shed and a car in the blaze, asked the ADF to redo a fire break in September "but they said they were too busy" Edited November 13, 2019 by Jeruselem Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leonid 615 Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Jeruselem said: Dunno, armed forces living firing during bushfire season as well. You know our military idiots ... Maybe we need a common sense provision in the Voting Act. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeruselem 989 Posted November 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Leonid said: Maybe we need a common sense provision in the Voting Act. It's too late, we gave these people explosives to play with. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisg 761 Posted November 13, 2019 39 minutes ago, Leonid said: Fake news. Oh Really ? https://www.earth.com/news/tree-planting-programs-greenery/ You are getting to be as bad as trump when you see something you do not like... I think we can trust NASA to have a reasonably balanced reporting dictum. It's not enough of course but it is a start. Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eveln 1,380 Posted November 13, 2019 I thought I saw a bit on China's tree planting initiative. It was pretty negative iirc. Something about all the same type of tree regardless of suitability 're survival... India apparently is doing a bit better with their planting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeruselem 989 Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, eveln said: I thought I saw a bit on China's tree planting initiative. It was pretty negative iirc. Something about all the same type of tree regardless of suitability 're survival... India apparently is doing a bit better with their planting https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/29/africa/ethiopia-plants-350-million-trees-intl-hnk/index.html Ethiopia planted 350 million in 12 hours Edited November 13, 2019 by Jeruselem Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisg 761 Posted November 13, 2019 Yes, I think that is quite probably correct. From what I've read the Chinese just surveyed what grew in different areas, picked the most likely to survive and once or twice a year hand out trees by the ton as seedlings across the country with people paid some pittance per tree to go plant them. However NASA reports that random or not it is regenerating foliage, even if it tends to be "trash timber." India has been considerably more creative. In the end though it is all carbon sinks and whilst big old trees would be wonderful they also take the longest to grow. I also read somewhere that they were experimenting with bamboo which has the virtue of growing extremely quickly and can be cropped regularly for sustainable alternatives for flooring and such. Bamboo is a grass so I'm not quite so sure how much carbon it sinks but given the rate of growth I'd suspect it is on a par to slower growing denser woods. I think the real point is though that an effort is being made, it can be fine tuned as they go - beats sitting on your ass bleating about it. Cheers Ethiopia is fascinating J, it is often overlooked just how much deforestation has contributed to the crippling droughts in that region. Came about through the large coffee and tea plantations last century at least partly plus swelling populations that tended to be nomadic and tended to slash and burn and move on. The Peace Corps were doing good work on re-education in the horn of Africa until the whole area turned into a war zone for decades. Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
