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SquallStrife

Trump: The third POTUS ever to be Impeached

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6 minutes ago, Leonid said:

Fun fact: Hillary is now the only woman to be screwed by two impeached presidents.

... but he's still not quite impeached yet dude 🙂

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19 minutes ago, eveln said:

... but he's still not quite impeached yet dude 🙂


He is impeached. Just not convicted.

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11 minutes ago, Leonid said:


He is impeached. Just not convicted.

There is some chat about that though ... seems all that has happened is a formal vote for impeachment, which was for it, but the articles tabled to make that vote have to go to the Senate, and that ( as far as I know ) has not yet happened.

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37 minutes ago, eveln said:

There is some chat about that though ... seems all that has happened is a formal vote for impeachment, which was for it, but the articles tabled to make that vote have to go to the Senate, and that ( as far as I know ) has not yet happened.


Impeachemnt can happen in any legislative body but it needs a trial against the articles of impeachment to convict a politician.

 

So yeah - he’s impeached by that means jack shit. It’s a partisan process that’s meant to be used a last resort.

 

Clinton lied to Congress about ducking his intern. Is that really a high crime or misdemeanour? Trump tried to get/initiate diet on a rival. Is that really a high crime or misdemeanour?

 

Are any of these ethical issues worth the political damage?

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4 minutes ago, Leonid said:


Impeachemnt can happen in any legislative body but it needs a trial against the articles of impeachment to convict a politician.

um Derh ;)

seems to me, impeacment does not occur till trial and found guilty has occurred

 

A vote to do so, plus articles drawn has occurred, so the concept has begun ... but the bizness is yet to occur ...

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Just now, eveln said:

seems to me, impeacment does not occur till trial and found guilty has occurred


Nah. Impeachment has occurred.

 

But it’s just a step in the formal removal of an elected official from office.

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1 minute ago, Leonid said:


Nah. Impeachment has occurred.

 

But it’s just a step in the formal removal of an elected official from office.

So, according to your theory ( which I still dispute, but nevermind ) if the impeachment does not mean elected official is removed from office then ( in my head ) the elected official did not get impeached 🙂

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Ted Cruz has just backed Trump's request to call witnesses in the Senate. The Dems never allowed the White House to cross examine witnesses, let alone be involved in the process. It was completely partisan and for show. Trump is looking to put Biden and the whistleblower on the stand too. Fuck that'll be a good watch if they do.


Reps are taking the high ground and saying "We are going to let the President defend himself in a fair trial, which includes allowing the Democrats to present their case as well." - Cruz

 

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🙂

 

Look up "impeach" it means charge a person, so the charge has been laid but the person (Trump) has yet to be convicted (and probably wont be.)

 

Cheers

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3 hours ago, eveln said:

So, according to your theory ( which I still dispute, but nevermind ) if the impeachment does not mean elected official is removed from office then ( in my head ) the elected official did not get impeached 🙂

 

It's not Leo's "theory". Impeachment isn't the whole process of removing a president, just the first step.

 

To compare it to an individual accused of a crime, impeachment is only the equivalent of an indictment, not a conviction and sentencing.

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24 minutes ago, SquallStrife said:

 

It's not Leo's "theory".

O yeah I know, it's just that Leonid was the one talking to me about it.

 

Quote

Impeachment isn't the whole process of removing a president, just the first step.

but according to this guy ... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/us/trump-feldman-impeach.html ... the deed is not done till the articles are served to the Senate.

 

even if you think I'm wrong 😉 to my mind the impeaching process has started but is not complete ie; impeached. Impeached is the past tense which implies the deed is done, but it factually is not done

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3 hours ago, Damo said:

The Dems never allowed the White House to cross examine witnesses, let alone be involved in the process.

Seriously?

 

Quote

"The impeachment investigation is analogous to a criminal investigation or inquiry by the police, prosecutor, or grand jury –– and the accused has none of the rights listed by the president during that investigation or inquiry," Sherry said. "In particular, neither the accused nor his or her lawyer are present at a grand jury hearing, nor is the accused permitted to present witnesses or other evidence or see a transcript."

Former federal prosecutor and Stanford law professor David Sklansky said a due process claim right now is "not a good argument."

"It is only after charges have been filed and the case has reached the trial stage that criminal defendants have the right to cross-examine witnesses, call witnesses, have access to evidence, and have counsel present," Sklansky said. "The role of the House of Representatives in an impeachment proceeding is to investigate and charge, not to try.

The trial comes later, in the Senate. So the suggestion that the president is being denied ‘basic rights guaranteed to all Americans’ at this point makes no sense."

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/oct/10/trump-lawyer-claims-lack-due-process-house-impeach/

 

3 hours ago, Damo said:

Reps are taking the high ground

What you mean like Graham and McConnell?

Quote

Senator Lindsey Graham put it crisply. “This thing will come to the Senate, and it will die quickly, and I will do everything I can to make it die quickly,” he said. “I am trying to give a pretty clear signal I have made up my mind. I’m not trying to pretend to be a fair juror here.”

 

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, speaking to Fox News, was even more explicit. “Everything I do during this, I’m coordinating with White House counsel. There will be no difference between the president’s position and our position as to how to handle this to the extent that we can,” he said. “We have no choice but to take [the impeachment trial] up, but we will be working through this process, hopefully in a fairly short period of time, in total coordination with the White House counsel’s office and the people who are representing the president in the well of the Senate.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/theres-nothing-impartial-about-declaring-yourself-impartial/603658/

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/14/politics/lindsey-graham-trump-impeachment-trial/index.html

 

When the oath they will have to take for the Senate trial says

Quote

Form of oath to be administered to the Members of the
Senate and the Presiding Officer sitting in the trial of
impeachments
‘‘I solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) that
in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment
of ——— ———, now pending, I will do impartial justice
according to the Constitution and laws: So help me God.’’

Section 194.3 of the RULES OF PROCEDURE AND PRACTICE IN THE SENATE WHEN SITTING ON IMPEACHMENT TRIALS.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/SMAN-113/pdf/SMAN-113-pg223.pdf

 

Some high ground when before you even take the oath you are saying you are going to ignore it.

So same old same old bullshit and lies from Trump and his supporters.

 

It seems the constitution is only of relevance when it can be used against the Democrats.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, aliali said:

It seems the constitution is only of relevance when it can be used against the Democrats.

 

 

Well that’s a refreshing change given that whenever a constitutionalist made a constitutional point it would invariably be a Democrat rolling their eyes and complaining about the ancient parchment written by privileged white males and now being used by other white males to weaponise the American parliament.

 

I look forward to the Democrats’ constitutional rigour and defence of the constitution on making damned sure every American has the right to bear arms in any fashion they so choose in accordance with the Constitution.

 

(sarcastic point, in case you’re wondering)

Edited by Leonid
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41 minutes ago, Leonid said:

I look forward to the Democrats’ constitutional rigour and defence of the constitution on making damned sure every American has the right to bear arms in any fashion they so choose in accordance with the Constitution.

.

 

OrAnGe mAn BaD

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On 12/19/2019 at 12:44 PM, Jeruselem said:

Hey it's better than being one of four POTUS who were assassinated

 

Is it, though? 

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41 minutes ago, Kimmo said:

Is it, though? 

 

Better for him.  Probably better for the world, too, to have his historical note be listed with Nixon than Lincoln.

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2 hours ago, Cybes said:

 

Better for him.  Probably better for the world, too, to have his historical note be listed with Nixon than Lincoln.

 

He's already listed with Lincoln.

He'll never be listed with Nixon (Nixon was not impeached) but he is with Clinton.

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🙂

 

Perception says otherwise Leo.

 

We all should know that whilst Nixon was never actually served with letters of impeachment he only escaped it by jumping on an airplane and declaring himself "not a crook" when he transparently was.

 

In the populist memory his legacy will always be associated with impeachment.

 

The only reason I can think of why Trump has any association with Lincoln is they both purport(ed) to be Republicans. I could go well out o a limb and say that despite not actually being THAT opposed to slavery he divided America and took it into the bloodiest of civil wars. For some reason Americans remember him rather fondly and have a huge statue of him looking out over the reflecting pool.

 

The country would have been rather different had he not been assassinated just after the war ended, and probably not in a particularly good way.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Leonid said:

 

He's already listed with Lincoln.

 

 

 

one had a big hat, and the other is an arse-hat ?

 

 

or maybe one was the archetypal 'mercan, and the other wears a merkin  ?

 

 

 

Edited by scruffy1

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2 hours ago, scruffy1 said:

one had a big hat, and the other is an arse-hat ?

 

 

Both bankrupted.

Both utterly hated by upper elite classes and Washington bureaucrats + both considered unfit to be president.

3 hours ago, chrisg said:

Perception says otherwise Leo.

 

Perception without facts is for retards.

 

Observe:

 

 

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🙂

 

"Perception" is in the eye of the beholder  🙂

 

I'd forgotten Lincoln went broke but yeah the elite of Washington even then did not like him.

 

Cheers

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9 hours ago, chrisg said:

🙂

 

"Perception" is in the eye of the beholder  🙂

 

I'd forgotten Lincoln went broke but yeah the elite of Washington even then did not like him.

 

Cheers

 

A lot of people didn't like Lincoln........................but like Trump, he had their respect.

10 hours ago, Leonid said:

 

Both bankrupted.

Both utterly hated by upper elite classes and Washington bureaucrats + both considered unfit to be president.

 

Perception without facts is for retards.

 

Observe:

 

 

 

 

Paul Zanetti's take...............

 

05_12_19.jpg

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This is one of the reasons I’m sending the eldest to a local catholic school rather than the local public school.

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