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Leonid

Trump makes good on a threat

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1 minute ago, chrisg said:

All very well but in just about every scenario Americans are going to be putting their lives on the line.


Please explain how that was different to any other day while Soleimani was alive?

3 minutes ago, chrisg said:

One of the few Trump promises that really made much sense in 2016 was drawing down on the useless wars and getting the troops home.


Which he’s done. Not all - but a lot.

4 minutes ago, chrisg said:

and now escalating with Iran.


Iran sabotages 6 oil tankers in Hormuz

Trump downplays it

Iran shoots down US drone

Trump downplays it

Iran attacks Saudi oilfield

Trump does nothing

Iran attacks US embassy

Trump responds forcefully against the man behind all of the above

 

chrisg: WHY DOES HE WANT WAR?

 

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It's escalation, and very ham-fisted at that.

 

TBH I doubt Soleimani had much of anything to do with either the downing of the drone or the Saudi oil field attack, they are not really Guard events, the tankers and the embassy, much more in their line.

 

To be clear, I'm not regretting that he is gone one bit, what concerns me is how Trump has so badly mis-handled it. He is almost playing into a sympathy card for Iran by taking the guy out on Iraqi soil and not to put too fine a point on it, with a drone - the Iranians regard drones with a great deal of suspicion and not a little contempt, even though they are developing their own.

 

I don't really think Trump's scorecard is impressive at all in terms of getting America out of wars, or even reducing international tension. The fact is that America still has boots on the ground in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, his negotiations with NK have failed and he has Iran chomping at the bit to kill Americans and/or Israelis. Before he tore up the agreement on nuclear limitation Iran was pretty quiet, now it is anything but - no good results that I can see.

 

Cheers

 

 

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@Leonid

Now you just know chrisg has the right of this ... seriously dude when Rose McGowan is of the same mind ya just know you were wrong Leonid

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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahha ,* break for air * hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !

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11 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Before he tore up the agreement on nuclear limitation Iran was pretty quiet,


You know... if you want people to believe you have spent time in the military, try to make it look like you know this sort of stuff.

 

12 minutes ago, chrisg said:

It's escalation, and very ham-fisted at that.


It’s escalation only if you believe holding someone responsible despite implausible deniability is escalation.

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9 minutes ago, eveln said:

@Leonid

Now you just know chrisg has the right of this ... seriously dude when Rose McGowan is of the same mind ya just know you were wrong Leonid

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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahha ,* break for air * hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !


It’s Trump Derangement Syndrome.

 

Orange Man Bad ergo everything Orange Bad Man does is Bad.

 

It is true the Orange Man is a buffoon but the Orange Man is trying something different to what White Men and Black Man have done previously because all that shit never worked.

 

Therefore because Bad Orange Man does not do previously attempted Stupid Shit, he is Bad.

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Heh,

 

 Every one of the European signatories to the nuclear agreement were fully accepting of the fact that whilst it was not perfect it was enough for now. Trump tore it up, Iran has ballooned well past the agreement's limit on enrichment and pretty much certainly has enough enriched uranium to at the least assemble some nasty dirty devices - not yet nukes but very nasty.

 

Iran has indeed played a very different game of deniability, they pretty much always have because they want to be recognised as a state player not some haven for terrorists. That they actually are is somewhat irrelevant, the game has to be played when you are dealing with 79million people, just as it is with Fat Boy Kim.

 

So they have not admitted to the attack on the Saudi fields, I really don't see how it could have come from anywhere else, but everything else is directly or unequivocally attributable to them.

 

They have been becoming a larger and larger threat to stability in the region and that all began when Trump pulled the rug on the nuclear agreement. No, they were not a good global citizen before hand but the gloves came off when he did that.

 

He lives in some strange belief that he, and only he, can negotiate a deal. He hasn't, he's further alienated them, and been played fro a fool by both Kim and Putin.

 

I very well understand why you are so comprehensively anti-Iran, they have been throwing threats at Israel on a daily basis for years but conflict with them is not a simple matter and in the end it wont solve a thing.

 

The evidence suggests that there is a strong under-current of resentment in Iran against the Ayatollahs, but it will not persist if innocent civilians start getting killed and that is where this is heading.

 

Cheers

 

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8 minutes ago, chrisg said:

 

 Every one of the European signatories to the nuclear agreement were fully accepting of the fact that whilst it was not perfect it was enough for now.


Peace for our time.

8 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Trump tore it up,


Excellent.

9 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Iran has ballooned well past the agreement's limit on enrichment and pretty much certainly has enough enriched uranium to at the least assemble some nasty dirty devices - not yet nukes but very nasty.


And Europe’s still in on the agreement which means the value of the agreement is null.

10 minutes ago, chrisg said:

No, they were not a good global citizen before hand but the gloves came off when he did that.


Gloves came off when he did that? I assume the propping up of Assad and the Second Lebanon War were also because of Trump?

11 minutes ago, chrisg said:

He lives in some strange belief that he, and only he, can negotiate a deal. He hasn't, he's further alienated them, and been played fro a fool by both Kim and Putin.


So at the absolute worst he’s done no better than all other Presidents who came before him who have been played by Putin and Kim.

12 minutes ago, chrisg said:

very well understand why you are so comprehensively anti-Iran, they have been throwing threats at Israel on a daily basis for years but conflict with them is not a simple matter and in the end it wont solve a thing.


I’m not anti-Iran. I’m anti-Ayatollahs.

 

If he runs this like Clinton ran Yugoslavia, the Iranian people may get the government they deserve after 40 years of goatfuckers.

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13 minutes ago, chrisg said:

The evidence suggests that there is a strong under-current of resentment in Iran against the Ayatollahs, but it will not persist if innocent civilians start getting killed and that is where this is heading.


It’s heading to the death of Iranian civilians?

Well the Iranians should be used to that given their government just murdered up to 1500 Iranians...

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No, not peace for our time at all, you really have some bizarre hang up about that. Peace in the sense of saying "nice doggie," whilst you find a bigger stick.

 

The only nation that in the end matters in nuclear agreements is America, it is valuable to have the other nuclear nations and powerful entities such as Germany along but America is the big force. All Trump has managed to do is fumble the ball, back them into a corner with sanctions and now they are biting.

 

Tell me Leo what is it you want ? War with Iran ?

 

That would be impossibly stupid, Israel would suffer terribly and win lose or draw a new generation of terrorists would be let lose on the world to perpetuate the madness.

 

Yes, they have been killing their own, that will be their undoing but not if America starts killing them. There's a saying concerning enemies in Arab and I suppose the Persian State where America is defined as the "Far Enemy"  they cannot seem to forgive the re-creation of the State of Israel.

 

Well, they are going to have to, Israel has not only proven it can exist it has flourished, but it benefits no one if Iran goes nuclear and initiates a nuclear strike, which they are demonstrably insane enough to do. Israel would retaliate of course and we would enter a nuclear spasm.

 

The road to peace is a far more difficult one but it has to be explored, we are not playing with pop guns any more.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, chrisg said:

No, not peace for our time at all, you really have some bizarre hang up about that. Peace in the sense of saying "nice doggie," whilst you find a bigger stick.


In the absence of anyone actually looking for a bigger stick, it’s “peace for our time”?

1 hour ago, chrisg said:

All Trump has managed to do is fumble the ball, back them into a corner with sanctions and now they are biting.


So let me get this right and let me summarise if I may. You support a nuclear agreement with a nation that broke it on the first day to remain in force despite the fact that said nation has never been one that has signed an agreement it has kept to?

1 hour ago, chrisg said:

Tell me Leo what is it you want ? War with Iran ?


Every Ayatollah, Sheikh and Imam to be scared of blue skies.

1 hour ago, chrisg said:

That would be impossibly stupid, Israel would suffer terribly and win lose or draw a new generation of terrorists would be let lose on the world to perpetuate the madness.


That’s true regardless. So may as well keep killing terrorists.

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1 hour ago, chrisg said:

Well, they are going to have to, Israel has not only proven it can exist it has flourished, but it benefits no one if Iran goes nuclear and initiates a nuclear strike, which they are demonstrably insane enough to do


One of the things you could do to stop that is biting sanctions, denial of their proxy-based plausible deniability and assassinations of key assholes.

 

It might not work but it’s not going to be any worse than everything else that also hasn’t worked.

1 hour ago, chrisg said:

The road to peace is a far more difficult one but it has to be explored, we are not playing with pop guns any more.


You would’ve been a hoot in 1938.

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Honestly... You end up always resorting to violence, which simply begets violence - it is not a solution, it never will be.

 

I can't be bothered discussing with you any longer - your ways ae not going to work if anything they make things worse.

 

Cheers

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1 hour ago, chrisg said:

You end up always resorting to violence, which simply begets violence


You would have been a hoot in 1938.

 

1 hour ago, chrisg said:

can't be bothered discussing with you any longer - your ways ae not going to work if anything they make things worse.


My ways may end wars instead of keeping everything in a constant state of “war by other means.”

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20 hours ago, chrisg said:

The presence of the US in any of the 'Stans is minimal, Pakistan is not likely to allow military action from its territory


Hey anyone wanna see how quickly Mr. He-Man is wrong in geopolitics?

 

Ready?

 

”In exchange for resumption of military to military cooperation, Pakistan has extended tacit support to the US over its air strikes that killed Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps commander Major Gen Qassem Soleimani and other top military officials in Baghdad.

 

Pakistan has remained conspicuous by its silence over the strikes and escalation of tensions between the US and Iran. Top intelligence sources said Pakistan, which blamed Soleimani for Baloch militant attacks against its forces, found an opportunity to “kill two birds with one stone” when the US sought its support after the operation.”

 

https://www.sangarpublication.org/pakistan-extends-tacit-support-to-us-over-air-strikes-against-iraq-in-turn-us-resumes-military-cooperation/

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🙂

 

Meanwhile there were Pakistanis by the tens of thousands bemoaning his death and demanding vengeance - Pakistan is not a country, its' a debacle of Muslims poorly identified and pushed into a " country" created by partition without regard for Muslim distinction. It has been one of the greatest failures of Empire. actually two, the other was once East Pakistan, now it is Bangladesh.

 

There is no way the US is going to operate  with any degree of confidence or security out of that cess-pool.

 

Your way will see funeral pyres if things do not pan out, and they never do - grow up

or grow a brain, either is more acceptable than where you are now- mired in hate...

 

Done talking.

 

Cheers

 

 

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14 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Meanwhile there were Pakistanis by the tens of thousands bemoaning his death and demanding vengeance


Great.

 

In a country of rectums, you found the dumbest ones.
 

You also fail to account for the fact that Pakistan has a Shia minority who are not well liked by the Sunni majority. Those protesters are Shia.

 

16 minutes ago, chrisg said:

There is no way the US is going to operate  with any degree of confidence or security out of that cess-pool.


It’s gonna operate the same way it always has. No change.

 

You act as if this is the first Iranian general killed with almost no blow-back.

 

18 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Your way will see funeral pyres if things do not pan out, and they never do - grow up


Again Mr. He-Man - before you talk geopolitics, it would help if you have a record of accuracy.

 

20 minutes ago, chrisg said:

or grow a brain, either is more acceptable than where you are now- mired in hate...

 

Done talking.


Bet you ain’t.

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22 hours ago, Leonid said:

Bet you ain’t.

you were right ... he's not done talking about it, just changed threads is all. I reckon it's cos the words in this thread have become unappealing

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More because it is a fast evolving situation that is coming unglued very quickly.

 

Actually, check it back, i didn't change threads, I believe Leo did.

 

Cheers

 

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Bloody small can of worms you got there scruffy1 😉

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"not to scale"

 

or the donald would have a really small handle

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53 minutes ago, scruffy1 said:

"not to scale"

 

or the donald would have a really small handle

Not to your idea of scale mbe 😛

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And Iran just started shooting missiles at US bases in Iraq ... not like that was unexpected

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Here's an interesting and what I believe to be a clear minded and non- partisan take on the situation by Maajid Nawaz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCV0FdNwrL4

 

     

Soz for edit but decided to embed it.

Edited by Waltish
embeded vid
  • Like 2

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