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Nich...

dead PC? post about it on atomic

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Just before I finished up some late night reading, this morning, my desktop decided to promptly turn it's power off and not turn back on.

 

I've had no luck again today, either with the PSU in the PC, not with one borrowed from a known working box.

 

At this point I guess I'm left looking at the mobo or CPU as prime suspects.

 

Anything I should try out before shopping for a replacement build?  I'm kind of disappointed that I only had this last for 4.5 years, but meh.

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Finally managed to get desktop's PSU working, with an optical drive plugged in, and some old phone recharge cable standing in for a paperclip.  Still nothing with the PSU plugged into the desktop powering only the motherboard and CPU, everything but the actual CPU physically removed.

 

Not sure if this is definitely ruling out that PSU as being the culprit without finding a multimeter (and learning how to use a multimeter), but given that's 0/2 PSUs that will fire the system up... I'm back to assuming it's mobo or CPU that's dead.  IDK if it's even worth trying to reset the bios?  The jumper and battery are not easy to reach, sitting in under the NH-D15

Guess it's parts shopping time.

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Yep, empty CPU socket, mobo is still unresponsive and doesn't beep.

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I wonder what would happen if you used the paperclip method while connected to the MB.

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PSUs are temperamental things.

I've had them start with a paperclip but fail to boot under load.

Best way is to borrow a new or known working PSU........................pain in the arse, I know but it's really the only way.

(did get a faulty one new out of the box once................that threw a spanner in the works for daze!)

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22 minutes ago, Dasa said:

I wonder what would happen if you used the paperclip method while connected to the MB.

How does that even work?

 

14 minutes ago, LogicprObe said:

 

PSUs are temperamental things.

I've had them start with a paperclip but fail to boot under load.

Best way is to borrow a new or known working PSU........................pain in the arse, I know but it's really the only way.

(did get a faulty one new out of the box once................that threw a spanner in the works for daze!)

DOAs can FOAD, dealt with that shit before.

 

 

I guess I'm in the market for an AM4 board, 32GB of RAM, and a Ryzen 5 or 7.

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My last big build is over 5 years old now..............................

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2 minutes ago, LogicprObe said:

 

My last big build is over 5 years old now..............................

I was hoping to stretch it to 5 years TBH and see what the next gen ryzen brought to the game, and if Intel had a response, but eh.

 

Kind of amazed it lasted this long, at this point, given the reoccurring issues the  motherboard and ram gave me from the get-go.

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3 hours ago, Nich... said:

How does that even work?

Much the same you just have to go into the other end of the plug beside the wires.

It should force the PSU to power the MB unless it detects a short in which case it should instantly power off.

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Yeah, well, I went with the i7 at the time............I even ran it with the onboard graphics to see how it went until my card on backorder came in.

It went OK but like you, I had 32GB of RAM.

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ATM I'm looking to pickup the AM4 bracket from PCCG for my NH-D15, and if I get both a R7 3700x and Gigabyte motherboard from MSY, there's a freeby GIGABYTE Gen 4 SSD 500GB (which would replace my current 850 EVO 250GB SSD).  Dunno if I want to go a GA board tho', it's the piece I'm the most indecisive on, between juggling SATA ports (prefer 6 to be usable even before m2 drives are plugged in), M2 location so heatsinks fit, backplane connectivity, and having enough front USB headers for A and C types (1 3.1g2 c, 2x3.0 a, 2x2.0 a) on an R6 define. 

 

Dunno whether to look at g.skill, corsair, or crucial for 32GB of RAM.  f4-3200c16d-32gvk look to be $215, but BLS2K16G4D32AESB are $269, and they both seem to be getting favourable reviews.

Don't necessarily need a new PSU, but I guess it'd be nice.  https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/wjLyx6 says, ignoring what's in USB ports, it'll use barely more than 400W, which feels weirdly low (long time since that'd barely cover CPU and GPU alone, hah), but at some point in the coming year or so I'll probably grab a new GPU and who knows what power draw they'll have.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

 

10 hours ago, Nich... said:

How does that even work?

 

DOAs can FOAD, dealt with that shit before.

 

 

I guess I'm in the market for an AM4 board, 32GB of RAM, and a Ryzen 5 or 7.

Depending on what you will be doing with your PC, you might be able to snag a 2000 series cpu until the next wave hits of the 4000 series and save some $.  Even a used eBay deal for a 2600 or 2700. It will still be fast and offsets the price for another year for cpu.   

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:  PSU, target a 600w which should be enough for almost any build unless you go 2080 ti 🙂

 

Edited by gamble
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9 minutes ago, gamble said:

Depending on what you will be doing with your PC, you might be able to snag a 2000 series cpu until the next wave hits of the 4000 series and save some $.  Even a used eBay deal for a 2600 or 2700. It will still be fast and offsets the price for another year for cpu.  

Mix of gaming, web/file/media serving, and leaving firefox sitting around with 500 tabs open, for the most part. 

At this point I'm thinking that I'll just run something as my desktop, and if there's significant changes with next year's release to give me buyer's remorse, I'll get that for myself and shunt this purchase into my now vacant (matx?) case to run as a discrete home server (trying to work out what's going on with x570 ECC support is a PITA).

 

So if my desktop will also be the home server, I guess on top of that, at some point it'll be setup as a base station for a handful of IP/PoE cams.


IDK.  I hate forced upgrades.  Biggest gutpunch is knowing that the 4690k running at 4.4ghz is probably going to be the same as or slightly ahead of what I can expect from a 3000 series.  Lucky I like to run all the things at the same time, I guess.

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Never presume it gone without pulling the CMOS battery and trying another PSU.

 

And yep, the norm these days seems to be that the graphics card will hamper access not only to the battery but also the RAM.

That's the reason DDR4 went for the single movable clip system, though that stuff is still a PITA to insert properly.

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I'm trying to get as much as possible via pick-up in Melbourne, so I'm forgoing a few cheaper prices for the 'convenience' of being able to build it after a few hours of driving.

Any suggestions?  Still a bunch of reading and videos to slog through to have a better idea of RAM on x570/Ryzen 3000, and trawling reviews to see what quirks there are and if everything will fit and play nicely.

 

PSU: Super Flower Leadex III Gold 650W (SF-650F14HG) $139 (a) (b) 

CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700x (CPUA4R73700X) $499 $515

Mobo: Gigabyte x570 Aorus Pro wifi $419 1 (a) 

RAM: 16GBx2: Crucial ballistix elite 32gb 3200 c15, $269 (BLS2K16G4D32AESB), or G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GB 3200MHz CL16 DDR4 (F4-3200C16D-32GVK$229 $215 

Case: Fractal define R6 USB-c gunmetal grey 2 $229 (a) 

 

Free shit from promos:

SSD: Gigabyte Gen 4 SSD 500GB

Games: Borderlands 3 or Outerworlds

 

 

System overview: https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/MrYL7T 

Note, I'm only getting new case/psu/cpu/mobo/ram.

 

 

1 ERP problems with the intel wireless chip are annoying but also it's there as a backup, I'm unlikely to use wifi and BT often.  Also, lack of availability/decent pricing in Vic is annoying on the Ultimate.  I'm trying to trade off/justify the extra price for the free 4.0 nvme storage.

2 My only concern is the included 3x 140mm fans seem to be 3-pin models, and I can't get it clear in my head if these attached to the case's fan controller will work as if they're PWM-controlled fans, or I'll have to fuck around.

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Posted (edited)

 

I don't know if they have improved but I had  issues with Super Flower gear some years ago and have dodged them ever since.

Edited by LogicprObe

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Posted (edited)

Superflower has come a long way in recent years.

Superflow made the EVGA G2 which had a high reputation with the main flow being a short holdup time, so if you are in a area with power that frequently drops out you would want a UPS that switches over in under 11ms with these older models.

Seasonic G series had some issues with balancing load on the 12v rail at high draws.

 

Review of the 650 Leadex III

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/super-flower-leadex-iii-650-w/

 

5 hours ago, Nich... said:

RAM: 16GBx2: Crucial ballistix elite 32gb 3200 c15, $269 (BLS2K16G4D32AESB), or G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GB 3200MHz CL16 DDR4 (F4-3200C16D-32GVK$229 $215 


The Crucial has new Micron chips that are known to OC fairly well while the Ripjaws V will be a bit of a lottery that probably wont OC very well.

 

I don't know the the X570 MB is worth the premium over say MSI B450 Mortar MAX $149 even with the free SSD.

PCI-E 4 doesn't currently offer any real benefits even the SSD are currently slower for load times than top end PCI-E 3 drives.

 

Biggest down sides in my eyes are the loss of the front USB C port and lower quality audio chip.

Maybe it is worth it just for the USB C port when you are paying for such a nice case.

Edited by Dasa
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You will probably have better support with a x570 board long-term.  Remember that Ryzen needs bios updates and it might be better in the long run to go x570.  If you look to upgrade later with the next Ryzen release, possibly x570 will have more features that are supported. I nearly went for a Asus crosshair hero vii x470 again but the Asus TUF x570 wifi has been great for cheaper price.  If planning to keep 3700x for 5 years then B450 or x470 could save some.   Idk if anyone can really tell the difference from a good Gen3 pci x4 nvme vs Gen4 nvme besides stats. 

 

 (I wasn't planning on using wifi/Bluetooth on my pc but it has been amazing for transferring files and other things) 

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2 hours ago, gamble said:

Idk if anyone can really tell the difference from a good Gen3 pci x4 nvme vs Gen4 nvme besides stats. 

 (I wasn't planning on using wifi/Bluetooth on my pc but it has been amazing for transferring files and other things) 

Free pcie4 ('free') and I won't say no, but yeah it's not something I'd go out of my way for.  My understanding tho' is that, either via v4 or something else with the 3000+x570 combo opens up more lanes which can go towards storage, eg 6 SATA ports and at least one (I think I've seen 2, maybe not 3) m2 slot that can be used together, rather than m2 slots disabling SATA ports.  This feels important because as I slowly upgrade my personal (cf server) storage, I can shuffle SATA SSDs onto m2 ports, and make space for more spinning rust.

(and yeah, I don't plan on using [wireless] much, but it'll be useful to have around)

 

 

7 hours ago, Dasa said:

My only concern with that review ( @LogicprObe I put some links of reviews in (after the prices)) is, as pointed out on whirlpool, the spike at low frequencies.

 

7 hours ago, Dasa said:

The Crucial has new Micron chips that are known to OC fairly well

Thanks, clears that up for me.

 

7 hours ago, Dasa said:

I don't know the the X570 MB is worth the premium over say MSI B450 Mortar MAX $149 even with the free SSD.

PCI-E 4 doesn't currently offer any real benefits even the SSD are currently slower for load times than top end PCI-E 3 drives.

 

Biggest down sides in my eyes are the loss of the front USB C port and lower quality audio chip.

Maybe it is worth it just for the USB C port when you are paying for such a nice case.

Yeah, if this wasn't doubling as a server with so many drives hanging off it, I'd probably go for something a lot cheaper, motherboard-wise, and also probably drop to a 3600 CPU.


Tidied up partspicker lists:
full system in context
new bits I need (sans D15 bracket)

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If I understand the case fanhub correctly, I can run the 3 casefans off the 3 pin side, keep the central D15 PWM fan plugged into the motherboard's CPU fan connector, and plug the fan hub's PWM line into a PWM casefan motherboard connector, with the second D15 PWM fan plugged into the fan hub as a signal line.  Just not sure how this will affect the other fans, speed-wise (how how push-pull will work if the speeds aren't syncing up), and if it'd be better to mount the second D15 fan on the case (bottom mounted pointing up at the drive bays, or up towards the GPU a little further back, I'm guessing), or just look at replacing the default case fans with PWM fans 🤷‍♀️

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From what I can tell....

 

Gigabyte Aorus Pro > Asus Tuf, for this.  Tuf has no front USB-c header, which is probably a bigger thing given the case hah.

 

Still umming and ahhing on the PSU.  Keep getting distracted by all the other shit going on with the AMD ecosystem.

(Finally worked out how to filter properly with this , and between that and this other thing the list of boards that do what I'd like is pretty narrow.

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haha.  The pricing differences here vs in the US between models is crazy.  Anyway,

The ROG Srix -E is basically the wifi version of the -F, with a 2.5GbE thrown in for good measure.
If I go up to $449, I get me all the things: front and back USB-C, 8 SATA ports that aren't affected by M2 population.  Which is only $30 over the Aorus Pro wifi.

Do not like the price but do like the expansability.

The only thing the ASUS missing vs the GA is a motherboard temp sensor (and, I guess, a half TB nvme SSD)

 

 

So one thing I've noticed is the ASUS and GA motherboards both have a full 8 pin EPS connector, as well as a 4 pin one beside it.  How important is it that both be used?  Because it looks like 2x EPS rails at 650W is not common, but is (moreso) at 750W. Helps if I look at the latest revision of PSUs I guess -_-  eh, cm650x and xm650 are different models from different years.

 

Sorry for the edit spam.  I'm tired and struggling to nail down the PSU and motherboard -_-

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Posted (edited)

You can use just the 8pin, the 4pin is used in extreme OC cases.  I cant remember which of my ryzen/mb I ran with just the single 8pin but it worked fine.  But plz double check with the vendor or maybe someone else can confirm.  I just know ran it without the extra 4pin in the past.   I did order another cable to have both connected to try to see if it would help OC... But ryzen works best when left alone in most cases.  Ram tweaking seems to help much more and running 1:1 ratio with the infinity/ram. 

Edited by gamble
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