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eveln

Why shouldn't Face Book give you the news ?

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Yes,

 

 And both dove-tail well into the other.

 

Communism does not scale, I utterly agree, even big kibbutzim run into problems.

 

Small libertarian is exactly where I exist - which makes one wonder why we are arguing - could just be tyranny of text - but I think it is more because ultimately it has a great deal of difficulty in a population on its way to 7 billion.

 

We need to find a form that allows those numbers with the freedoms of small libertarian and at the moment we are heading down totally the wrong roads.

 

However we will not find that way through criticism, it will be found via exploration.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Leonid said:

 

Not to mention that Kimmo's "diet of quality journalism" is basically reporters barely out of high school reviewing reactions to outrage on Twitter.

You seem awfully familiar with how the daily mail operates, for someone who allegedly doesn't read it.

1 hour ago, chrisg said:

I really do not expect a Russian emigre to understand that though - you were polluted from birth...

Wow.

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46 minutes ago, Nich... said:

 

🙂

 

I had to get his attention somehow..he was on an escape orbit trajectory...  🙂

 

Cheers

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2 hours ago, Nich... said:

You seem awfully familiar with how the daily mail operates, for someone who allegedly doesn't read it.

 

The Daily Mail is trash. I wasn't aware anyone defended it.

The Pravda on the Thames was brought up. It's equally trash.

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I figure any incursion on personal liberty should require some pretty strenuous justification. There's way too much overreach when it comes to individuals and their personal business.

 

But on the other hand, I can't see how anything approaching an ideal society can ignore the prime directive of sustainability. Or how justice can exist without a system limiting the power of groups and individuals. Of course, some wackos will tell you that's fucken totalitarianism...

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Small-l libertarianism posits a few simple things:

1: There is a general unlimited right

2: It cannot infringe on the rights of others

3: The responsibility of government is to maintain those rights

4. Offence is not currency. It is taken, not given.

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Seems to me political advertising has always been in dire need of an " honesty-call" since it first became a thing. Thing is one person's truth ain't necessarily their neighbours' truth ;)

The fact that FB is so huge is your fault not the companies ... if you weren't on it you wouldn't see it's adverts. I mean how come you as users get to set it standards ?

Go somewhere else if you don't like it

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1 hour ago, Leonid said:

Small-l libertarianism posits a few simple things:

1: There is a general unlimited right

2: It cannot infringe on the rights of others

3: The responsibility of government is to maintain those rights

4. Offence is not currency. It is taken, not given.

 

Points 1 and 2 are not compatible:  #2 directly contravenes #1.

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35 minutes ago, Cybes said:

 

Points 1 and 2 are not compatible:  #2 directly contravenes #1.


They are compatible and #2 is designed to limit #1


Or maybe they aren’t. Doesn’t really matter.

 

#2 is designed to limit #1 nonetheless.

Edited by Leonid

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50 minutes ago, eveln said:

Seems to me political advertising has always been in dire need of an " honesty-call" since it first became a thing. Thing is one person's truth ain't necessarily their neighbours' truth 😉

The fact that FB is so huge is your fault not the companies ... if you weren't on it you wouldn't see it's adverts. I mean how come you as users get to set it standards ?

Go somewhere else if you don't like it


I don’t think that’s necessarily the problem. I mean - yes we can go somewhere else. But we shouldn’t have to.

 

Fake news works because people are susceptible to it because our education system is rigged to favour feelings over facts.

 

I come back to an oft-stated point: how is a kid who has been taught that men can get pregnant supposed to deal with a world of facts? They haven’t been equipped with the capability to make distinctions on the basis of facts.

 

In a world where academia has erased gender, nationality, ethnicity and the idea that a man is judged on the content of his character - facts are in rare supply. We’re not that far off Orwell’s 1984.

 

That’s why I’m so glad I’m sending my kid to a Catholic School. I only have Lawd Jaysus to deal with and that one’s easy.

Edited by Leonid

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18 minutes ago, Leonid said:

They are compatible and #2 is designed to limit #1

...

#2 is designed to limit #1 nonetheless.

 

Yes, that was exactly my point.  Perhaps you'd care to read your own point's wording again?

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2 minutes ago, Cybes said:

 

Yes, that was exactly my point.  Perhaps you'd care to read your own point's wording again?


“contravenes” is not the same as “limits”.

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1 hour ago, eveln said:

Seems to me political advertising has always been in dire need of an " honesty-call" since it first became a thing. Thing is one person's truth ain't necessarily their neighbours' truth 😉

The fact that FB is so huge is your fault not the companies ... if you weren't on it you wouldn't see it's adverts. I mean how come you as users get to set it standards ?

Go somewhere else if you don't like it

If you don't love it, leave it!

43 minutes ago, Leonid said:

Fake news works because people are susceptible to it because our education system is rigged to favour feelings over facts.

Ah yes.  The boomer generation, notorious for... being educated in feelings and the 54 genders, rather than facts. 

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1 hour ago, Nich... said:

If you don't love it, leave it!

 

Sure.

Or I don't know if you simply must stay on it then um, use some critical thinking, and um, ignore adverts. All of them.

The excuse to stay on it is that life is so much easier for the user wrt to staying in touch with family and friends . Well the other side of that coin is that it's not FB's job to make political advertising honest. It's FB job to make money off of all it's users.

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2 hours ago, Leonid said:

 

That’s why I’m so glad I’m sending my kid to a Catholic School. I only have Lawd Jaysus to deal with and that one’s easy.

[ disclaimer : as a result of stilted parenting and the Catholic School system ]

 

Tell her the facts about the human body. Don't tell her she's a woman when she gets her first period. Ten year olds get periods . Tell her her body is evolving to allow her to grow a foetus .

And FFS tell her about, and have someone give her the how -to, of using a tampon. Never let her believe her life is stilted cos she has to endure a frigging pad for a week of every month of the rest of her foreseeable future.

Pads are the curse for the female, imo .

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13 minutes ago, eveln said:

Sure.

Or I don't know if you simply must stay on it then um, use some critical thinking, and um, ignore adverts. All of them.

The excuse to stay on it is that life is so much easier for the user wrt to staying in touch with family and friends . Well the other side of that coin is that it's not FB's job to make political advertising honest. It's FB job to make money off of all it's users.

 

 

Within the constraints of the law(s) of the countries in which it operates - which the Internet has made a mockery of.

 

However FB originated in the US and it is the laws of that nation that are working to take it to court.

 

Australia does not really have monopoly laws but the US does - just how PB has been able to absorb Instagram and WhatsApp without being taken to task is perhaps an admission that those laws really do not have much bite.

 

MS received a rap over the knuckles from them years ago but in a bizarre fashion Apple and then emergent Linux protected Redmond to a degree . Now Apple is worth more than MS - go figure.

 

You have to climb a long way down to find any even potential let alone actual competition to FB. MySpace still exists, but a shadow of its former self. Then there is Pinterst- I have no idea what that is...

 

It is rather dangerous to have FB decreeing the news but tbh the guardians of that flame, the newsmongers, sort of surrendered their responsibility courtesy of Murdoch et al a looong time ago.

 

It makes any belief structure very suspect.

 

Case in point - if you believe Trump's tweets there's a bridge in Brooklyn you may be interested in...

 

Cheers

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Nich... said:

Ah yes.  The boomer generation, notorious for... being educated in feelings and the 54 genders, rather than facts. 


We have a lot of generational bullshit to reverse.

18 minutes ago, eveln said:

[ disclaimer : as a result of stilted parenting and the Catholic School system ]

 

Tell her the facts about the human body. Don't tell her she's a woman when she gets her first period. Ten year olds get periods . Tell her her body is evolving to allow her to grow a foetus .

And FFS tell her about, and have someone give her the how -to, of using a tampon. Never let her believe her life is stilted cos she has to endure a frigging pad for a week of every month of the rest of her foreseeable future.

Pads are the curse for the female, imo .


My daughter already understands how taxes work.

 

That puts her ahead of 50% of grown-ass Aussies.

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2 hours ago, Leonid said:


My daughter already understands how taxes work.

 

That puts her ahead of 50% of grown-ass Aussies.

she won't give a shit about taxes when blood seeps out between her legs the first time.

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56 minutes ago, eveln said:

she won't give a shit about taxes when blood seeps out between her legs the first time.

 

There's been a lot of concern over the GST on tampons and surfboards.

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1 minute ago, LogicprObe said:

 

There's been a lot of concern over the GST on tampons and surfboards.

daughter #1 won't give a fuck about that  ... Leonid might though

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1 hour ago, eveln said:

she won't give a shit about taxes when blood seeps out between her legs the first time.


She’s been reading those books too.

She nebulously understands it thus far - but not a whole lot yet.

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6 hours ago, chrisg said:

if you believe Trump's tweets


Here’s a tweet from an organisation that is anti-Trump, claiming to be impartial and factual:

 

 

Half the team is black or Hispanic.

 

More people trust Trump than Congress or the Media. It’s not hard to see why

 

 

Edited by Leonid

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6 hours ago, chrisg said:

Australia does not really have monopoly laws but the US does - just how PB has been able to absorb Instagram and WhatsApp without being taken to task is perhaps an admission that those laws really do not have much bite.

What monopoly laws does the US have that aren't based in anticompetitive behaviour, which is also what Australian laws are based on?

 

6 hours ago, chrisg said:

You have to climb a long way down to find any even potential let alone actual competition to FB. MySpace still exists, but a shadow of its former self. Then there is Pinterst- I have no idea what that is...

 

It is rather dangerous to have FB decreeing the news but tbh the guardians of that flame, the newsmongers, sort of surrendered their responsibility courtesy of Murdoch et al a looong time ago.

 

This is why lots of grains of sand should be taken with opinions given from the far distant sidelines.

 

FB already pays various groups, internal and external, to run fact-checking because of the vast reams of paranoid (and otherwise) 'fake news' that spread even easier now there's no need to figure out how to use a fax machine.  They don't need to decree the news anymore than they already do.  But they could also have just pulled a page from the Twitter playbook, and said they wouldn't take any money for paid political ads.  That'd be a slightly better moral position than 'well, if we don't sell them coal, someone else will take their PAC $$$, how will people who uncritically accept all of this at face value ever learn that they're being lied to?'

 

6 hours ago, Leonid said:

We have a lot of generational bullshit to reverse.

What a quaint way of saying 'oh right, I got called out'

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10 hours ago, Leonid said:

contravenes” is not the same as “limits”.

 

 

Ahem:

 

13 hours ago, Leonid said:

1: There is a general unlimited right

2: It cannot infringe on the rights of others

 

Note the underlined word.  Now note that #2 is in fact a limit.

 

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8 hours ago, Nich... said:

What a quaint way of saying 'oh right, I got called out'


Nope. Just an acknowledgement of reality. We have to reverse almost every single thing from the moment the New Left captured academia. That’s at least 2 generations. Maybe 3.

6 hours ago, Cybes said:

Note the underlined word.  Now note that #2 is in fact a limit.


Yeah I get that. #2 is designed to be a limit of #1.

 

General unlimited right == “do whatever the fuck you want”

 

#2 is designed to limit that right, not contravene it. It’s an easier way of defining rights. 
 

Presently our rights are listed - ie broadly speaking there’s a giant list of what we’re allowed to do.

 

Libertarianism wants that reversed - ie it wants a list of what we can’t do and everything else is allowed.

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