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Kothos

This is weird... External HDD not recognised.

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So I'm trying to understand this situation.  I have an ancient Samsung Story 1.5Tb external mechanical HDD with a USB 2.0 connection and a separate power supply that plugs into the wall.

 

Works fine on my 8 year old laptop.

 

Gets a Code 43 error (device reported an error and has been disabled or something) on my brand new Win10 lappy.

 

Was troubleshooting this for a while and eventually I tried plugging it in with a y-cable to my 2x USB3.0 ports on the new machine and hey presto, it worked!

 

Now, WhyTF would a device with it's own power supply need TWO USB ports to draw current from, before it works?

 

I looked up the ratings and USB2.0 is rated for 5V and max. 500mA current, USB 3.0 is 5V and max. 900mA current.

 

I don't get it?  On my old computer it literally works fine with a single cable on a USB 1.0 or 2.0 port (the former is just slower).  This thing is now plugged in to a 1800mA source.  Why??  It's own power supply provides 2A of current...

 

Unless... the external PSU is dead?  Maybe I should check that.

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If you could pull the drive and try in a caddy, other enclosure or internally in a desktop it'd be a good test.

No reason for a 3.5" drive to need the USB Y-cable, they need 12V DC as well which is part reason they're always self-powered.

 

Generally the external PS's for 3.5" drives are 9V AC and the interface board derives the required 5 and 12V DC from that.  As such they're often interchangable, e.g. I just use the Seagate one for the WD Elements drive I have.  But it's not always the case especially with the older types.

 

Other thing - I've encountered weird behaviour when an externally connected drive is starved for power.  Such things as reading OK but failing write operations.

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Off topic a bit, but I recently discovered a thing with some recent WD external 3.5" drives...

 

They tend to sell cheaper than internal drives so plenty of people get into shucking.  As a deterrent, some drives will go into a holding pattern (reset) if the 3.3V is present (as per the SATA power standard for internals).

The fix there is to tape over a couple of pins on the drive's power connector so it's presented with the same power environment that the caddy has.

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Huh, that's weird. Why would the manufacturers bother? Just sell both drives cheaper and possibly make more money by saving on the enclosure?

Edited by Kothos

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Generally the enclosed ones are 5900 rpm rather than 7200 so the $10 or so saving is with that performance hit... and often they'll have less cache as well.

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It's also the opportunity cost of not selling drives designed for a segment because people will take a performance hit for something not hugely performance critical.

 

The pita thing about it is that it makes it a lot harder to diagnose/repair portable drives if they for eg start soldering stuff on to deter shuckers.

 

For that reason alone, my last and probably next portable will be a 2.5" drive of my own choosing inside a case of my choosing.

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Additionally, we have SMR drives which are the work of the devil (shingled mode recording).

Since the write heads can't be made as small as the read head, they cram more data in by stepping in by a fraction of the head width for the next track.

All well and good until you need to rewrite a particular sector - the drive has to reread and write back the entire group of tracks - a largish cache helps with this - but it's often not transparent to the user and you experience a real slowdown.  You have the track grouping such that a rewrite doesn't need to do too many.

 

I've got both 4 TB SMR and perpendicular recording drives and the SMR one is well slower.  The $99 ones you see at Officeworks are Seagate SMR drives.

 

I'd not trust a 2.5" drive for anything I value.  The reliablity is horrendous.  But the other problem is 3.5s are heading the same way.

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I have 3x Seagate 8tb smr drives and they're great when used appropriately.

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The intention with them is they're not work drives but more along the lines of archival use.

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19 hours ago, Rybags said:

Additionally, we have SMR drives which are the work of the devil (shingled mode recording).

Since the write heads can't be made as small as the read head, they cram more data in by stepping in by a fraction of the head width for the next track.

All well and good until you need to rewrite a particular sector - the drive has to reread and write back the entire group of tracks - a largish cache helps with this - but it's often not transparent to the user and you experience a real slowdown.  You have the track grouping such that a rewrite doesn't need to do too many.

 

I've got both 4 TB SMR and perpendicular recording drives and the SMR one is well slower.  The $99 ones you see at Officeworks are Seagate SMR drives.

 

I'd not trust a 2.5" drive for anything I value.  The reliablity is horrendous.  But the other problem is 3.5s are heading the same way.

 

I've gotta say...............all the 3.5 inch drives in external caddies............even the ones with pissy little fans I've had have failed.

Overheating, I suspect..............but I've only had one USB powered 2.5 inch fail.............and I've got heaps of those external ones!

I only use them for back ups and such so they don't really get a lot of use though.

 

All my 3.5 drives I use in a docking station now and there are no probs.

 

AB73084.jpg

Edited by LogicprObe

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Which docking station you use?  I went all nvme/ssd's in my current rig but have been looking for external enclosures for my sata 3.5" 2tb drives (backups, video and photos).... theres lots out there and I have been trying to decide but these things (docks/enclosures) have limited reviews...  I like the docking station idea so I can flop them in and out.   I did see some with 2 slot docks built-in that looks like for replication.   Undecided still 😕    Dont mean to hijack but kinda on subject as op might need a new dock or enclosure. 

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I used to give/sell them to my customers to encourage them to back up.

I've used a lot over the years and they probably all use a common chipset but some are easier to insert the drive while others feel like you are going to break something upon insertion.

(sounds like sex with a really old woman/man, I know)

 

Anyway...........I'm thinking of buying this thing ATM.................... https://www.ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=162984

 

I've got one of these which runs fine........... https://www.ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=156352

 

........and I've got a Pata/Sata one somewhere..........would be USB 2.

The first one I had was PATA only...........might even still be here somewhere.

These things were invaluable for fixing computers.

Saved a lot of mucking around.

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I've got an old USB 2 one that's essentially retired.

Got 2 x Vantec NexStar USB 3 ones - one goes in the toolkit to go out & about and the other sits on the desktop here.

Had issue with the home based one though, it'd sometimes just drop out for no reason but hasn't done it lately.

 

One complaint with the docking stations - if you've got screws in the sides of the drives like you use with so many mounting solutions these days, they have to come out which is a PITA.

 

I've got a removable bay on the desktop so that I can power down the archive drive.  And a hotswap bay that I've not used yet for others.

And about 4 WD and Seagate ones sitting in the drawer next to me and probably another 4 or 5 in the cupboard.

 

Probably well over 25 TB worth of disk floating around now.  But still got lots of burnt DVDs with videos that I should transfer over.

Edited by Rybags
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I got this combona little while back.

 

https://www.pccasegear.com/products/43185

https://www.pccasegear.com/products/28262

 

Had no issues with the dock so far. Every month or so I pull an deprecated 200gb or 2tb drive out and do a fresh backup onto it. I figure at least one of the drives will be working if I ever need to rebuild after a major data failure on a live system.

15 hours ago, fliptopia said:

Yeah, pretty much a replacement for things like tape. 

That, but also surprisingly decent media drives, given they're read from more than written to.

 

Just takes forever to fill them up.

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The issue I've found with the docking stations is that even though some of them say they are hot swap, a sudden power down/outage while they are running can result in the loss of the drive index so it just disappears and asks to be formatted.

On the big drives, this results in running a recovery program for a day or so to get the files back!

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Hot swappable just means you have to either turn off write cache or disconnect it within windows first, right?  Just like any other kind of external USB drive?

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Dual station... I should have bought one of those.

 

With hotswap you're supposed to perform a proper dismount/safely remove procedure, especially if write caching's turned on.

Also, I'm fairly sure if you're hotswapping internal drives there's usually an option per port in the Bios to enable it, plus you should run the Intel Rapid Storage utility (not 100% on that, I need no interaction with it other than reading it's plug/unplug messages)

Backing up/recovering from a large drive though... just that in itself can be sufficient to trash or further damage a drive given the huge timeframe.

I discovered the MiniTool Data Recovery software which seems about the best, there's 1 or 2 lesser featured clones of it by other companies.

 

But it's big advantage is that once the scan is finished you can save the project file and do the file recovery part at your leisure.

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6 hours ago, Nich... said:

Hot swappable just means you have to either turn off write cache or disconnect it within windows first, right?  Just like any other kind of external USB drive?

 

Yeah..............but I had brought one downstairs to the TV as it has all the movies on it and I went to bed and left them to it.

I might have had a bit of a hangover the next day and didn't notice it was sitting there on but no one was accessing it and 'someone' decided to do the vacuuming and just yanked the PSU out of the powerboard.

Hence the condition I described earlier.

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On 2/14/2020 at 9:21 PM, Rybags said:

Other thing - I've encountered weird behaviour when an externally connected drive is starved for power.  Such things as reading OK but failing write operations.

 

Since you've written this I've found some other references to the same thing searching the Web.  Haven't looked into it too deeply yet.

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