Jump to content
Can't remember your login details? Read more... ×
chrisg

The coronavirus conspiracy

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, fliptopia said:

 

But the thing is, from that article he was grilled by the health department and then they publicly put up information that he says was not what he told them happened at all. 

 

As usual we will never know the whole truth in either regard. I'm just not for public hangings on sketchy information. 

and I'm not for public hangings either. And that's what his FB posts were doing 😕

 

3 hours ago, scruffy1 said:

you have no idea how difficult it is to get in "temporary" staff, even planning weeks to months ahead

If it's all that difficult then he should have stayed closed and referred  his dire cases ... I'm sure they would have been grateful for his regard of their lives

 

Edited by eveln

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Jeruselem said:

At that time there was a particular nasty virus going round

 

was there though, really?  seems to me people are always talking about some or other 'nasty flu' that has been 'going around' lately.  my question is, when are these not ludicrously empty observations?  i mean, how often are any of the people who pass these statements onto others as a matter of fact in any sort of position to be able to gauge what has been 'going around' lately and to map a particular set of cases or severe symptoms to a discrete strain?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, eveln said:

and I'm not for public hangings either. And that's what his FB posts were doing 😕

Out of the 2 posts, who is most likely to lose their livelihood over one of them? I doubt the minister will greatly suffer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, @~thehung said:

 

was there though, really?  seems to me people are always talking about some or other 'nasty flu' that has been 'going around' lately.  my question is, when are these not ludicrously empty observations?  i mean, how often are any of the people who pass these statements onto others as a matter of fact in any sort of position to be able to gauge what has been 'going around' lately and to map a particular set of cases or severe symptoms to a discrete strain?

 

 

There entire point is the hospital nurse had it visibly and she was in the emergency ward. The Royal Darwin Hospital is always understaffed.

Edited by Jeruselem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Jeruselem said:

 

There entire point is the hospital nurse had it visibly and she was in the emergency ward. The Royal Darwin Hospital is always understaffed.

 

i originally had "just as an aside" at the start of my post.  shouldve left that in 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

2 year old hotel holding coronavirus suspects collapses (it was used for quarantine). Yes, it was like ... 2 years old.

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, @~thehung said:

 

i originally had "just as an aside" at the start of my post.  shouldve left that in 🙂

 

Just to note, we're in peak flu season here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-30/is-there-a-lower-incidence-of-cold-and-flu-infections-in-tropics/10381902

 

 

Edited by Jeruselem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, scruffy1 said:

he clearly states in the article, he meets none of the currently required criteria to actually be swabbed

 

and what are the criteria exactly?

 

tell me there is more to this than splitting hairs over Ms Mikakos' "flu-like symptoms" and Higgins' almost resolved "mild cold".

 

every few years i look up the difference between a cold and a flu, and come away confused.  it all sounds like ambiguous variations of the same shit to me, but then i havent had them since i was a young kid.  however, i accept that people generally understand the differences, and i suspect you can make the distinction just from observation and history in many cases.

 

but i have always assumed that a flu with only mild symptoms present can easily be mistaken for a cold.  is this wrong?  because if it isnt wrong, and even if it isnt — given the known prevalence of mild CoVid-19 symptoms — how was it not incumbent on the Doc to suspect the worst?  or to at the very least do the swab first thing Monday rather than three days later?

 

 

4 hours ago, scruffy1 said:

and not only is it a matter of being tested, you actually are not meant to test people who don't meet criteria, because there are limited resources to do so

 

youve said the swab for rna is unreliable.  but whats the minimum turn around time for a potential positive?  and whats involved?  can it be done on premises?

 

Edited by @~thehung

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fliptopia said:

Out of the 2 posts, who is most likely to lose their livelihood over one of them? I doubt the minister will greatly suffer. 

ummm. really ? you're basing it on money ? - which by the way is what I reckon Doctor Higgins was doing wrt his FB - I would have thought it would be more the thing to base it on people and their health

 

Tell me where  the pollie got the info wrong here pleae

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, @~thehung said:

 

and what are the criteria exactly?

 

tell me there is more to this than splitting hairs over Ms Mikakos' "flu-like symptoms" and Higgins' almost resolved "mild cold".

 

every few years i look up the difference between a cold and a flu, and come away confused.  it all sounds like ambiguous variations of the same shit to me, but then i havent had them since i was a young kid.  however, i accept that people generally understand the differences, and i suspect you can make the distinction just from observation and history in many cases.

 

but i have always assumed that a flu with only mild symptoms present can easily be mistaken for a cold.  is this wrong?  because if it isnt wrong, and even if it isnt — given the known prevalence of mild CoVid-19 symptoms — how was it not incumbent on the Doc to suspect the worst?  or to at the very least do the swab first thing Monday rather than three days later?

 

 

 

youve said the swab for rna is unreliable.  but whats the minimum turn around time for a potential positive?  and whats involved?  can it be done on premises?

 

 

 

The most reliable information I've read is that the test is performed in a lab using PCR,  Polymerase chain reaction, an amplification method which, by the by, gained Kary Mulis his Nobel. It is not something you do on a workbench and the DNA sequencing is also not swift. Takes time, and not always accurate nevertheless. Say 24 hours at minimum, 3 days if the lab is under duress or samples take time to get there.

 

It's not exactly satisfactory but better than a few weeks ago when the Chinese decided only a chest scan was a reliable indication.

 

A faster testing method is needed, but seems to be proving elusive. The test kits are only sampling, the back-office is what takes time.

 

Cheers

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, eveln said:

ummm. really ? you're basing it on money ? - which by the way is what I reckon Doctor Higgins was doing wrt his FB - I would have thought it would be more the thing to base it on people and their health

 

Tell me where  the pollie got the info wrong here pleae

 

I'm talking in regards to who is going to be damaged by a Facebook post. Your sudden concern for politicians came to the fore. But that same politician had very little to lose here. 

 

As for the pollie getting the wrong info. I'll post the quote from the article again:

 

 "In his reply on Facebook, Dr Higgins said Ms Mikakos's version of events did not match what he had told her department."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, fliptopia said:

 

I'm talking in regards to who is going to be damaged by a Facebook post. Your sudden concern for politicians came to the fore. But that same politician had very little to lose here. 

 

As for the pollie getting the wrong info. I'll post the quote from the article again:

 

 "In his reply on Facebook, Dr Higgins said Ms Mikakos's version of events did not match what he had told her department."

Um huh  ? It's not my sudden concern for a pollie. It's my concern for the protective protocols that all other places are under once it's established that there is a need for them. In this case, that is what the pollie did.

She posted online and said she was "flabergasted" by his delayed response, given that he is in the business of making and keeping people well or better

I read the article fliptopia. I posted the link.

Also, if you did read the article to completion then you may have noticed the comments from the FB page attached at the bottom of the article.

 

You  seem more concerned about his business than the health of his patients. ...just sayin'

 

edit: and sure, if his business folds his patients will have to find a new doctor/surgery . but that's not the patiients' fault. That's the fault of the virus ... and I might add, the doctor for treating himself in the first instance.

Edited by eveln
just cos I needed to say more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, fliptopia said:
10 hours ago, eveln said:

and I'm not for public hangings either. And that's what his FB posts were doing 😕

Out of the 2 posts, who is most likely to lose their livelihood over one of them? I doubt the minister will greatly suffer.  

I missed this. sorry.

 

Well. He's a doctor with a clinic in Toorak. So either he's all front with no capital or not ... It's an expensive area to operate in.

She's a pollie. Her livelyhood is always in question I would have thought.

 

What about the livelihood of those seventy odd patients he dealt with and the nursing homes he visited before putting himself in quarantine ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, @~thehung said:

 

and what are the criteria exactly?

 

tell me there is more to this than splitting hairs over Ms Mikakos' "flu-like symptoms" and Higgins' almost resolved "mild cold".

 

every few years i look up the difference between a cold and a flu, and come away confused.  it all sounds like ambiguous variations of the same shit to me, but then i havent had them since i was a young kid.  however, i accept that people generally understand the differences, and i suspect you can make the distinction just from observation and history in many cases.

 

but i have always assumed that a flu with only mild symptoms present can easily be mistaken for a cold.  is this wrong?  because if it isnt wrong, and even if it isnt — given the known prevalence of mild CoVid-19 symptoms — how was it not incumbent on the Doc to suspect the worst?  or to at the very least do the swab first thing Monday rather than three days later?

 

 

 

youve said the swab for rna is unreliable.  but whats the minimum turn around time for a potential positive?  and whats involved?  can it be done on premises?

 

 

 

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/diseases/Pages/2019-ncov-case-definition.aspx

 

note that the vicwegians may and probably do have a different protocol - that's what states do

Confirmed case

A person who tests positive to a validated specific SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid test or has the virus identified by electron microscopy or viral culture, at a reference laboratory.

Suspect case

  1. If the patient satisfies epidemiological and clinical criteria, they are classified as a suspect case.

Epidemiological criteria

  • Travel to (including transit through) a country considered to pose a risk of transmission* in the 14 days before the onset of illness.
    or
  • Close or casual contact (see close and casual contact definitions below) in the 14 days before illness onset with a confirmed case of COVID-19.

Clinical criteria

  • Fever
    or
  • Acute respiratory infection (e.g. shortness of breath or cough) with or without fever.

B. If the patient has severe community-acquired pneumonia (critically ill) and no other cause is identified, with or without recent international travel, they are classified as a suspect case.

C. If the patient has moderate or severe community-acquired pneumonia (hospitalised) and is a healthcare worker, with or without international travel, they are classified as a suspect case.

 

 

i note this seems to have been updated only very recently, but still requires travel or transit through an infected country; oh wait !  that's australia these days

 

if everyone with a cough presents (which is actually not what lots of asymptomatic positives have), the system will crash

 

 

 

personally, we are doing phone triage and referring to local collection centres as indicated - but how many unpaid consults a day can we manage and still see paying patients whilst vaguely running on schedule ?

 

and how many other professions would accept pro bono cases in that quantity ?  it's not sustainable either financially, or physically

 

 

 

as for clinical judgement - the difference between a cold and influenza is not clear

 

australians refer to any bad cold as the flu, just like they refer to any bad headache as a migraine - and in both cases that's most usually the wrong diagnosis

 

 

noting all the asymptomatic (especially younger) patients who have tested positive, and noting all the many who aren't (and won't be) tested during their contagious phase, the pollies need to admit and accept that for all their posturing, they are no more in control with health than they are with the economy

 

but gee, they like to give the impression it's all well in hand, don't they ?

 

 

 

Edited by scruffy1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Guy I work with, his father is a doctor in china, so I get a little bit of an inside scoop; nothing major to report, as we expected the numbers were a bit skewed by the government; but not much, and in both areas (infections AND deaths), so the percentages are still roughly accurate.

 

However,  I was reading an article that explained that the mortality rate was probably heavily skewed by chinas 'default treatment' of symptoms.

Very interesting.

Apparently, due to over-filling of hospitals, doctors can't visit individuals often enough, so people were given oxygen too soon. 

I'm no doctor, but apparently there is a correlation between too much oxygen, and the body not noticing pneumonia is 'getting worse'?

No idea how it works; but people who spend short stints in 'oxygen bars' often find it hard to leave, after as short as half an hour in there; so it sounds plausible (and it was apparently a doc. writing the article)

 

However, the more interesting, was that apparently the 'go to' for ANY sort of fever, is a moderate dose of cortico steroids.

This will CERTAINLY lower the fever, however HEAVILY suppresses the immune system. Basically, the LAST thing you want to do, while it's trying to learn something it's never seen before.

Now the world knows (including china) and the outlook is even better than before.

 

 

Something I thought was VERY cool though;

China uses WeChat almost exclusively for sales; They've implemented a 'health band' where you have to promise you're healthy, and in addition, scan your personal ID code in order to shop anywhere.

So in the event someone lies, or gets sick later, contact tracing is SUPER accurate.

I thought that was neat!

Edited by Master_Scythe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How long you reckon until Italy is added to the Travel Ban list? by rights, it should be announced today.

Lets wait and see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, smadge1 said:

How long you reckon until Italy is added to the Travel Ban list? by rights, it should be announced today.

Lets wait and see.

 

I'm waiting for the USA to be added ...

 

And no Hawaii for scomo

https://www.theshovel.com.au/2020/03/08/hawaii-first-case-of-coronavirus-scott-morrison/

Edited by Jeruselem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not just Italy, or the US, if we are to keep our own number of infections low we need to be looking right down the list of countries that still have increasing numbers of infected, probably even Singapore.

 

The island State is a little unusual in that whilst its number of detected infections is relatively low it is a very, very high population density so one person has the potential to infect a great many very quickly. That's pretty much what happened in China.

 

The travel industry is already taking a huge hit but it is not going to get better very quickly.

 

Because the incubation period seems a bit rubbery if destinations are added to the no-fly list then a period of more like 21 days of no new infections before lifting the ban would probably be prudent.

 

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, chrisg said:

It's not just Italy, or the US, if we are to keep our own number of infections low we need to be looking right down the list of countries that still have increasing numbers of infected, probably even Singapore.

 

The island State is a little unusual in that whilst its number of detected infections is relatively low it is a very, very high population density so one person has the potential to infect a great many very quickly. That's pretty much what happened in China.

 

The travel industry is already taking a huge hit but it is not going to get better very quickly.

 

Because the incubation period seems a bit rubbery if destinations are added to the no-fly list then a period of more like 21 days of no new infections before lifting the ban would probably be prudent.

 

Cheers

 

Trouble is some scientists say the real incubation period could be like 4 weeks, I think it could down to the individual itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Trouble is some scientists say the real incubation period could be like 4 weeks, I think it could down to the individual itself. "

 

Yes,

 

That may well be the case, still a lot we really do not know about this virus.

 

Well, make it 28 days if need be but realistically there has to be a time limit where if no new infections present the disease has to be deemed contained.

 

Cheers

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, chrisg said:

"Trouble is some scientists say the real incubation period could be like 4 weeks, I think it could down to the individual itself. "

 

Yes,

 

That may well be the case, still a lot we really do not know about this virus.

 

Well, make it 28 days if need be but realistically there has to be a time limit where if no new infections present the disease has to be deemed contained.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

28 days maybe an extreme case for some people I guess, but I think 14 days was picked because it fitted most people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm,

 

It always did seem somewhat arbitrary.

 

The fact is that the infection appears to be passing or past its peak in China, except they are now reporting external infections as in caused by people coming in from zones such as Iran.

 

That provides very useful epidemiology data to track the actual incubation and duration periods of the infection.

 

If it makes you feel any better there are only limited reports of infections in tropical areas and then only in societies, such as Singapore, that are heavily air conditioned. It is too soon to say but the virus does not appear to do well in higher temperatures, so, welcome to Darwin 🙂

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Someone had to make My Corona song ... it had to happen. Yes one the people in the video is a real doctor.

 

 

 

Edited by Jeruselem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×