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chrisg

The coronavirus conspiracy

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4 minutes ago, chrisg said:

Sydney airport is being reported to be one of the Covid19 clusters so probably a good idea not to go there , ergo, it becomes quarantined.

 

Cheers

 

Pretty much any airport would be ...

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2 minutes ago, Jeruselem said:

 

Pretty much any airport would be ...

 

Yes, that's a good point, which means anyone out-bound from Sydney might well be a carrier, not a very comforting thought.

 

Cheers

 

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1 minute ago, chrisg said:

 

Yes, that's a good point, which means anyone out-bound from Sydney might well be a carrier, not a very comforting thought.

 

Cheers

 

 

Yeah Mum flies in on Saturday from Canberra ... 🙄

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Hmm,

 

 Make damned sure she has an N2 mask. That said Canberra hasn't yet reported any cases.

 

Qantas are not mucking around, grounded most of the A-380 fleet and taking sweeping voluntary pay cuts at board level. I've never much liked Joyce put have to give him his due those are sensible and unselfish acts. Mind you he makes $24M a year so not paying himself for 6 months is hardly going to put him on the streets. According to reports the airline is very well placed to come through very healthy, he has done a good job of managing equity against debt.

 

Cheers

 

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Only reason I slightly ... overly paranoid is my aunt came back from Singapore with gastro and I ended up getting it for a few days.

Considering this thing is more contiguous ...

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Singapore seems to have a pretty good lid on it, which is surprising given the small size and high population density. That said they are still reporting new cases, but mostly from identified clusters.

 

A mate of mine's sister is a senior doctor there, she's heavily involved in combating Covid19, was part of the group that voted to move quickly on testing and to cover the cost.

 

Cheers

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🙂

 

Well, that's creative.

 

The company that I've used for years for carpet cleaning just sent out an email to its customer list advising that a good carpet clean kills viruses and is a good idea to make sure you don't have corona in the house.

 

Happens I had them cleaned just after Christmas but full marks for marketing 🙂

 

Cheers

 

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3 minutes ago, chrisg said:

🙂

 

Well, that's creative.

 

The company that I've used for years for carpet cleaning just sent out an email to its customer list advising that a good carpet clean kills viruses and is a good idea to make sure you don't have corona in the house.

 

Happens I had them cleaned just after Christmas but full marks for marketing 🙂

 

Cheers

 

 

We got rid our carpet because all the bloody dust we had to put up with.

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43 minutes ago, Jeruselem said:

 

🙂

 

Seems a bit odd that you have to go see a GP to get a referral which kind of potentially exposes hm or her. Still, they had to do something with the old Repat, the place has been empty for ages whilst they dither over if to refurb or demolish.

 

In general I'd give the current SA Government a pretty good grade but that is one thing they seem to be procrastinating about. The hospital is very old, but not the sort of place to warrant heritage listing, it would however make a good site for a new convalescence facility to take that load off RAH, Flinders and QEII.

 

I'm not surprised you diced carpet in Darwin, never had anything but tile up there myself.

 

In reality I don't much like carpet at all but it came with this place in a couple of rooms.

 

Cheers

 

 

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23 hours ago, Jeruselem said:

Only issue is the limit is $100.

 

Just tell the operator your pin..............

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Posted (edited)
On 3/9/2020 at 8:35 AM, scruffy1 said:

 

 

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/diseases/Pages/2019-ncov-case-definition.aspx

 

note that the vicwegians may and probably do have a different protocol - that's what states do

Confirmed case

A person who tests positive to a validated specific SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid test or has the virus identified by electron microscopy or viral culture, at a reference laboratory.

Suspect case

  1. If the patient satisfies epidemiological and clinical criteria, they are classified as a suspect case.

Epidemiological criteria

  • Travel to (including transit through) a country considered to pose a risk of transmission* in the 14 days before the onset of illness.
    or
  • Close or casual contact (see close and casual contact definitions below) in the 14 days before illness onset with a confirmed case of COVID-19.

Clinical criteria

  • Fever
    or
  • Acute respiratory infection (e.g. shortness of breath or cough) with or without fever.

B. If the patient has severe community-acquired pneumonia (critically ill) and no other cause is identified, with or without recent international travel, they are classified as a suspect case.

C. If the patient has moderate or severe community-acquired pneumonia (hospitalised) and is a healthcare worker, with or without international travel, they are classified as a suspect case.

 

 

i note this seems to have been updated only very recently, but still requires travel or transit through an infected country; oh wait !  that's australia these days

 

if everyone with a cough presents (which is actually not what lots of asymptomatic positives have), the system will crash 

 

 

 

personally, we are doing phone triage and referring to local collection centres as indicated - but how many unpaid consults a day can we manage and still see paying patients whilst vaguely running on schedule ?

 

and how many other professions would accept pro bono cases in that quantity ?  it's not sustainable either financially, or physically

 

 

 

as for clinical judgement - the difference between a cold and influenza is not clear

 

australians refer to any bad cold as the flu, just like they refer to any bad headache as a migraine - and in both cases that's most usually the wrong diagnosis

 

 

noting all the asymptomatic (especially younger) patients who have tested positive, and noting all the many who aren't (and won't be) tested during their contagious phase, the pollies need to admit and accept that for all their posturing, they are no more in control with health than they are with the economy

 

but gee, they like to give the impression it's all well in hand, don't they ?

 

 

 


thanks for the informative reply, though a little oblique on some essential points 🙂

 

here is where i am at:

 

i'm inclined to think Mikakos dropped the ball.  the doc did not deserve to be pilloried, and in that sense the messaging failed.  its effect on relations between doctors and government and the management of public expectations going forward did more harm than good. 

 

the manner in which the clinic and/or doctor was outed was crass, although i am uncertain Mikakos explicitly did either. because lets face it, that info was getting out from grapevine to press regardless, even if she didnt arguably have a duty to broadcast the basic facts to passengers of flight UA60.

 

political opportunism? perhaps, but giving her the benefit of the doubt, she acted out of a desire to be proactive, got a bit too flabbergasted, and doesnt deserve a public arse-chewing any more than Dr Higgins (beyond his right of reply).

 

i take your point about who will work at the potentially 'infected' nursing home.   the clinical criteria currently exists between a rock and hard place.  it cant be ignored that its impractical and unrealistic (or soon will be) for every health practitioner with a sniffle to stop work immediately.  but i remain unconvinced we are there yet.

 

lets not forget that the criteria mentioned were criteria for medical assessments.  this is NOT THE SAME criteria by which any citizen might decide to self isolate, whether or not they get an immediate clinical assessment, if at all.  because as you point out, "if everyone with a cough presents ... the system will crash", so its desirable that a certain proportion of the population choose tentative isolation without assessment, against official advice.  BUT, in lieu of an overloaded system, shouldnt the highest burden for strict observance of isolation and testing fall onto health care practitioners?

 

TLDR;


- there was reason enough for him to self-isolate, as any citizen might, regardless of the clinical criteria for assessing patients
- it was not unreasonable for him to return to work given that 'someone's got to do it' and a realistic belief that he did not pose an undue high risk
- it was unreasonable for him to continue working untested for 4 days!

 

its the last point in particular i would like you to address.  if he had suspicions enough to test himself 'for completeness' O_o, then that was a level of suspicion too high to make patients unwitting cosigners to.

 

Edited by @~thehung

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@@~thehung 

I don't see why it's up to scruffy1 or any other doctor to address Dr. Higgins lack of judgement .

AFAIC I reckon his failing to do the test " for completeness sake "for four days, was a combination of wishful thinking, and business concerns, ie his clinic obviously has to keep supporting him and his clients. That' pretty straight forward imo, and it's the bit that sticks in my gullet.

 

The bloke up here I referred to the other day, has now apparently travelled to NZ after coming from Bali and being home here for a week-ish, and spending g those days here at work... Obviously he must feel okay ... But who the fuck knows if he or his partner are carriers ?? There's an even chance both are fine, but people's wilfulness is sometimes pretty bloody OTT, in my most humble opinion.

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No Italy, China, Iran or South Korea for you Aussies! (You can't go to North Korea legally from Australia anyway)

 

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... On further thought, I guess someone will need to address Dr.Higgins' behaviour if those he treated become infected.

...but then I would think it would be hard to pin it on the Dr. ...

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Posted (edited)

https://www.patreon.com/posts/34719081

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/sickness-allowance

 

Look what Scumo just did during a global pandemic!

 

You can’t submit new claims for Sickness Allowance from 20 March 2020. If you’re sick and unable to work or study you may be able to apply for JobSeeker Payment. Read more about when Sickness Allowance stops

 

 

 

Edited by Jeruselem

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Probably because too many people use it as a rort.  It's a short term alternative to the disability pension and intended for recuperating from injuries etc but very much open to abuse and no shortage of doctors out there willing to write out 3 month certificates.

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6 hours ago, eveln said:

@@~thehung 

I don't see why it's up to scruffy1 or any other doctor to address Dr. Higgins lack of judgement.

 

you don't see why i would be interested in the perspective of a GP when questioning the professional decisions made by another GP?  since i am not a GP, there could be factors here i am ignorant to.  its called informing one's opinion.

 

the AMA is pissed off about this, and not for frivolous reasons that are easy to brush aside.  also, when scruffy1 says "i can absolutely guarantee doctors for the main part go to work to care for patients" i am inclined to put a lot more stock in his perspective than your bald assumption that it was all about the filthy lucre.   

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12 minutes ago, @~thehung said:

 

you don't see why i would be interested in the perspective of a GP when questioning the professional decisions made by another GP?  since i am not a GP, there could be factors here i am ignorant to.  its called informing one's opinion.

 

Oh, well okay then, it sorta sounded like you wanted him to address it cos, like being a doctor too, ya know they must all think alike an' all. And he must hold some responsibility ... Sheesh !

 

12 minutes ago, @~thehung said:

 

the AMA is pissed off about this, and not for frivolous reasons that are easy to brush aside.  also, when scruffy1 says "i can absolutely guarantee doctors for the main part go to work to care for patients" i am inclined to put a lot more stock in his perspective than your bald assumption that it was all about the filthy lucre.   

" for the main part "

now those words give perfect credence to my assumption, I do reckon. 

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5 hours ago, Rybags said:

Probably because too many people use it as a rort.  It's a short term alternative to the disability pension and intended for recuperating from injuries etc but very much open to abuse and no shortage of doctors out there willing to write out 3 month certificates.

 

I had to use it once when I was in hospital for three weeks.

(plus another 3 weeks recuperation)

It saved me from losing my house at the time.

Mind you, this was BEFORE the internet and bludging scumbags.

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The bludgers were in full force way back when.  Had a neighbour when I was a kid who pulled the "oh, my beck" scam.  Walking stick in the front yard, pushing the lawnmower without much trouble in the back yard.

 

The difference is in those days the government didn't seem to worry about splashing the welfare money around as much as now.

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Posted (edited)

 

Michael Osterholm is an internationally recognized expert in infectious disease epidemiology.

 

He is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota.

 

 

Edited by @~thehung

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Is it just me or does it seem kind of weird we won't take a hit to the economy to stop the planet becoming unliveable but we'll do it to stop everyone getting a cold? 

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28 minutes ago, fliptopia said:

Is it just me or does it seem kind of weird we won't take a hit to the economy to stop the planet becoming unliveable but we'll do it to stop everyone getting a cold? 

 

kind of, but global warming isnt coming for your grandma.

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