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chrisg

The coronavirus conspiracy

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I really do not quite know what to make of this, but it is frighteningly plausible:

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-chinese-lab/news-story/0bc7c4f52892eb2e51e788b8e2e45c07

 

A separate thread for CV news was probably due anyway.

 

To my mind the containment has been pretty much consistently bungled, especially with regard to the Diamond Princess but I am still trying to resolve just how Australia is dealing with it.

Initially the banning of inbound flights etc. whilst perhaps somewhat heavy-handed definitely kept the numbers low and contained in Australia.

 

But now - the deal is that if a returned person from the infection zones is found to be contagious, primarily now at the Darwin facility, they are passed along to their state of origin for isolation and care.

 

Question.

 

How do they safely get there without potentially contaminating others ?

 

No one seems yet able to answer that with much confidence and meanwhile Japan, which has a health system at least as advanced as ours seems to be losing the containment battle, as is South Korea.

 

This is a long way from being over.

 

Cheers

 

 

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Wouldn't come as a surprise if it did escape from a lab rather than by <existing theories>

 

The whole handling of infections is a bit dodgy too, regardless of where it's happening.  You can't put 1,000 people together and say "OK, you're all leaving once we have 14 continuous days without a new infection".

Simple statistics says that won't work in the short or medium term.

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Yeah,

 

The theory is that the Chinese changed their method of reporting, then reverted...

 

Lies, damned lies and statistics...

 

Australia actually seems to be doing ok, but how long that lasts is moot given they are shipping known infected persons across the country by means we are not being informed of.

 

Anecdotally I heard from a senior doctor in Singapore last week that this particular virus was behaving in a strange manner. It was killing older people, who certainly do seem to be in the majority, via pulmonary collapse but it was also killing younger people by basically turning their immune systems against them.

 

I am not a doctor so I do not really understand how that would work but it does sound ominous.

 

I sort of remain tempted to believe that in the end it will just be another flu but on the other hand I do wonder why it is receiving so much attention and the near hysteria of repatriation flights etc.

 

I thought I knew China quite well having been there several times but I'd never heard of Wusan, nor has anyone I've thus far spoken to about it.

 

Apparently it is host to a major manufacturing facility for Apple, again, I have see Apple facilities in Shenzen and thought that was where most iPhones came from.

 

Apparently not.

 

It is presently all very murky as China shows itself more and more as behaving like a cat covering shit.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, chrisg said:

The theory is...

 

That is not a theory.  It is not even an hypothesis.  It is speculation, and of a fairly wild sort at that.

 

Further, it is a spectacularly bad bio-weapon: it kills fairly few of those it infects, those it does kill are not in the age brackets that would debilitate an enemy (to be horribly blunt, quite the opposite), requires no long term medical care, and is recovered from in a relatively short period.  Bonus: it is recovered from!

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17 minutes ago, Cybes said:

and is recovered from in a relatively short period.  Bonus: it is recovered from! 

there's been some chatter on the news that both the incubation time and the recovery time are a bit, um wobbly ... again though who's to really know.

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Well, no Cybes, they demonstrably have changed the reporting methodologies which has distorted the numbers.

 

It is rather murky overall.

 

I totally agree though, it is nobody's idea of a particularly effective bio-weapon, but perhaps that does depend upon its mutation path.

 

I'd be far more inclined to regard it as an accident or just plain slackness in terms of the labs continuing to explore SARS and via vectors mentioned in the link having it go wild.

 

The incubation period in particular seems very rubbery and it does not take a genius to speculate on the  wisdom of counting 14 days from event zero with no regard for infection transmission delays.

 

But that does seem to be what is being basically followed and it is unwinding.

 

Overall it does not seem to be being particularly well handled at all and with several nations that probably do have infected citizens claiming that they do not it still has a potential to bloom.

 

I agree, for MOST healthy people it appears to be just a case of the flu or even being asymptotic but that overlooks young well protected medical personnel who have been infected and in some cases died.

 

Cheers

 

 

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kurt vonnegut wrote a story where there was an epidemic, and eventually it was discovered the infective agent was microscopic chinese

 

they had become so numerous that they developed a technique to shrink their citizens so there would be enough room

 

 

 

🙂

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lol ^^, sounds as plausible as anything else just now

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3 hours ago, chrisg said:

Australia actually seems to be doing ok, but how long that lasts is moot given they are shipping known infected persons across the country

Ye WTF is with that?

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5 hours ago, aliali said:

Ye WTF is with that?

 

Spreading the lurve!

Anyway, that story in the O/P has been around since last year.

News is way behind...........the ABC will be running it next.........if they can find a way to make China look good.

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Scientists ‘strongly condemn’ rumors and conspiracy theories about origin of coronavirus outbreak

"...

A group of 27 prominent public health scientists from outside China is pushing back against a steady stream of stories and even a scientific paper suggesting a laboratory in Wuhan, China, may be the origin of the outbreak of COVID-19. “The rapid, open, and transparent sharing of data on this outbreak is now being threatened by rumours and misinformation around its origins,” the scientists, from nine countries, write in a statement published online by The Lancet yesterday.

The letter does not criticize any specific assertions about the origin of the outbreak, but many posts on social media have singled out the Wuhan Institute of Virology for intense scrutiny because it has a laboratory at the highest security level—biosafety level 4—and its researchers study coronaviruses from bats, including the one that is closest to SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. Speculations have included the possibility that the virus was bioengineered in the lab or that a lab worker was infected while handling a bat and then transmitted the disease to others outside the lab. Researchers from the institute have insisted there is no link between the outbreak and their laboratory.

..."

 

 

Twitter, Open Source Intelligence HK - @OSINTHK

"...now deleted paper on ResearchGate that we were able to retrieve. It claims #COVID2019 / #nCoV2019 may have originated from accidental Wuhan Center of Disease Control..."

 

zSDGsji.jpgVzsy7fA.jpgxK1lBiY.jpgJje5WxF.jpg

Edited by @~thehung
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Yeah,

 

I was aware of the existence of the lab, and of an early denial of it having been in any way involved.

 

What was not so apparent was that it is reportedly the only Level 4 bio-research lab in China.

 

That does seem to be a very odd coincidence.

 

I really do not know what is going on with the shipping of infected persons out of Darwin to their home States Ali, wish I did, it seems plain stupid but then again so did the knee-jerk reaction of quarantining the Diamond Princess, and I believe another cruise ship in Hong Kong. Doing so is now being described as giving the virus a petri dish in which to breed.

 

There has been a huge amount of contradictory and confusing information coming out about the virus in general. I'm pretty certain a lot of it can be put down to shoddy reporting, as usual, but it does appear that there may be no smoke without fire.

 

Cheers

 

 

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given how well noro virus in ships gets transmitted, i agree that containing healthy with sick is pretty silly - they would have done better to offload any suspected cases asap

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Indeed scruffy.

 

They, whoever "they" are seem to be multiplying the possibilities of infection.

 

Now it is being reported that 14 days incubation period may be way off. A case has presented where a patient was asymptotic for something like 27 days then tested positive.

 

In combination with the pointless taking of temperatures in people who may be infected but are not yet showing any symptoms, including elevated temperature, it seems rather obvious that no one really knows what they are doing.

 

Case in point, just today three passengers from Diamond Princess who were checked, by whatever means, five times between Japan and Darwin have now also tested positive.

 

It seems to be just as well that this is not a serious virus, not in real terms, but it is still killing people. Granted most fatalities have been of the elderly or those with per-existing conditions, but by no means all.

 

It honestly does seem that far from confining the virus the authorities globally are fumbling around and letting it escape.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

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I refrain from being alarmist but I do think we have hit a cusp when the Chinese start recalling people who had bee infected, were cleared and sent home but are now being found to be still contagious:

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/cured-patients-quarantined-at-coronavirus-epicentre/news-story/4dcf935884223b32785d2eb22d231daa

 

This virus is not really playing by the rules, for example kids seem to be pretty immune but that is not to say they cannot be carriers.

 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-is-going-global-and-containment-is-no-longer-an-option/news-story/6b52cf189ba52887bfc0b2a2862fcc49

 

 

With a vaccine seemingly months away unless they rush it without deep testing I'm wondering when, not if, it is going to be at my door.

 

Cheers

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http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-02/20/c_138802487.htm

"Those who spread conspiracy theories about the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) are doing so either out of "bad intentions" or "absurd ignorance," a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson said Thursday."

 

yeah...problem is, you have a basic credibility problem when the following sentence is just as likely:

"Those who spread conspiracy theories about the training and education centres in Xinjiang being non-voluntary prison camps for the brainwashing of Uighur people are doing so either out of "bad intentions" or "absurd ignorance," a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson said Thursday."

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19 minutes ago, DEVERE said:

mmm I've not read this book - interesting.

 

https://imgur.com/3kNsosy

 

 

... That's a bit spooky Dev. He's not one of my favorite authors but I might see if I can find a copy.

 

13 minutes ago, @~thehung said:

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-02/20/c_138802487.htm

"Those who spread conspiracy theories about the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) are doing so either out of "bad intentions" or "absurd ignorance," a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson said Thursday."

 

yeah...problem is, you have a basic credibility problem when the following sentence is just as likely:

"Those who spread conspiracy theories about the training and education centres in Xinjiang being non-voluntary prison camps for the brainwashing of Uighur people are doing so either out of "bad intentions" or "absurd ignorance," a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson said Thursday."

 

 

Which is pretty much what you would expect them to say @th.

 

Cheers

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6 minutes ago, chrisg said:

 

 

... That's a bit spooky Dev. He's not one of my favorite authors but I might see if I can find a copy.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

At least we have a rough idea what page that is on..... it's either 3's or 5's lol

Edited by DEVERE

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9 minutes ago, DEVERE said:

At least we have a rough idea what page that is on..... it's either 3's or 5's lol

 

🙂

 

If I can find it I'll probably read the whole thing anyway. Koontz annoys me but he's not totally impossible to read  🙂

 

Cheers

 

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tonight: Four Corners - Coronavirus

 

How the deadly epidemic sparked a global emergency

 

"Everyone is hiding...I'm absolutely f***ing petrified." Australian citizen trapped in China

 

It's likened to a scene from an apocalypse. Empty streets, overflowing hospitals and an overwhelming sense of fear in a city of 11 million people placed in "lockdown".

 

"What have you done? I don't want to live anymore...Take those (bodies) lying on the ground somewhere else. Otherwise, you better kill me." Wuhan hospital worker

In China, almost two thousand people have died as a result of coronavirus with tens of thousands more infected. Authorities are resorting to extreme measures to try to halt the contagion.

 

"It's beyond quarantine. I don't even know what to call it. It's quite terrifying knowing that people can knock on your door and drag you out for no reason at all because you have a temperature." Australian citizen trapped in China

 

The outbreak of the deadly virus in the city of Wuhan has triggered a global emergency with patients being diagnosed in 26 countries. Fifteen cases have been reported in Australia. To try to contain the spread, Australian authorities have effectively sealed our borders to people travelling from China.

 

"This is unprecedented in the history of modern medicine. We've never tried. We know that containment can work, but it's never really been done at this large scale." Australian infectious diseases expert

On Monday Four Corners charts how the outbreak occurred and investigates whether a cover up by Chinese authorities allowed the virus to spread.

 

"Just at a time where they could have traced it, just at a time where perhaps they could have checked it more substantially...that was lost because it got caught up in the politics of the information flow and information surveillance in China." China expert

In interviews filmed on smartphones, Chinese activists and Australians trapped in the lockdown explain what they are going through.

 

"There's queues outside the hospitals now. We're not allowed near them. There's people dropping on the footpath, literally." Australian citizen trapped in China

Here in Australia, scientists are engaged in a race against time to develop a vaccine. Four Corners has gained exclusive access to the high security laboratory involved in key coronavirus research.

 

"We know it kills people, but we don't know how many, and we don't know exactly what the mechanism is by which this virus kills people. So, at the moment we're taking the highest level of precautions." Virologist

This comprehensive report explains why health authorities are taking this virus so seriously.

 

"We always look at the worst-case scenario because if we don't prepare for the worst-case scenario, we'll never be forgiven." Global biosecurity expert

 

Coronavirus, reported by Sean Nicholls, goes to air on Monday 24th February at 8.30pm. It is replayed on Tuesday 25th February at 1.00pm and Wednesday 26th at 11.20pm.

 

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There's a youtube out there of the Chinese police ( pretty sure it was China ) doing their utmost to keep the people off the streets. Pepper spray is used at the slightest wiff of questioning the authority ... then of course when the person is down with the pain of the spray a few swift hits with the baton as the cuffs come out ... If I can find the tube tonight I will post it

 

 

Venice in Italy is just about closed off too isn't it ?

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Venice and a couple of other chunks of Italy but in typical Italian fashion it sees somewhat sporadic.

 

It's probably time to get a bit of a grip - it's a virus, it has a mortality rate, but a lot of those infected never even develop symptoms.

 

Australia WAS pretty much locked down, just what they did with those infected on the Diamond Princess no one seems to be saying.

 

So you get it, you get over it and hopefully you are then immune, unless the damned thing mutates - short answer we need a vaccine and we need ongoing vaccines to keep ahead of it - which is what we have been doing with 'flu, not massively successfully, for decades.

 

Buckle down, could be a rocky ride...

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4Corners will put the wind up those with a still complacent attitude about it.

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