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g__day

Rebulit astro lab PC stops seeing any USB2 devices whilst USB 3 are fine?

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So I try to practice more imaging today (day 5 on a more powerful PC to rrun my astrolab).  Last 5 days have been a ladder of success after success - telescope and dome slewing working, thermometers and two focusers working, two guide cameras working, filter wheel working, 250 star automated star run to create a detailed sky map versus scope pointing run done full automated yesterday.  Started imaging a new spiral galaxy target (M83) and all going well yesterday.
 
But sometime today I realise I must have banged a USB 3 cable going into my primary USB3 colour imaging camera - bummer!  So I am down one of my three ZWO cameras (ASI071MC-c Pro) but I swap over the USB 3 data cable coming into my ZWO ASI 120MM-s and the ASI071MC-c is detected straight away - good news!   I think oh well - it will only take a day or two to order in a new 2m USB 3  cable so I will guide off my spare guide camera - a QHY5L-II.
 
But for the first time in ages it isn't detected?  Then I notice my ZWO filter wheel connected to my ASI1600MM-c isn't detected, nor is either of two USB2 data keys in 2 different hubs, nor is my USB2 TemperHum Gold which always works.
 
I have 4 USB3 hubs (two dual Mbeat USB3 /2 hubs) and two by other brands.  None of my USB2 astro cameras connected to USB2 or USB3 hubs work at the moment (USB device unrecognised error under Windows 10 - device failed to set memory).
 
I haven't ever seen that error before - I tried moving devices around, trying different cables and different hubs and different external power supplies to the USB3 hubs.  I tried uninstalling the 3-4 unrecognised devices and scanning for changed hardware.  I tried re-downloading the latest drivers.
 
I scanned for hidden USB3 devices...
 
I can't figure what this weird error is.  Yesterday all my gear was working perfectly.  Astro lab PC didn't shutdown overnight, no warnings at all until tonight when I decided to keep imaging M83.
 
Any ideas folks?  I will try my non detecting gear on a PC inside the house - unless 5 separate cables (4 USB 3 and 1 USB 2) failed, or 4 USB3 and 1 USB2 hubs failed only for USB2 devices I am at a loss for what just happened and how to simply fix it.
 
I wonder if a Windows USB2 stack got corrupted somehow and if this can be detected and restored - cause that's what seems to be the common denominator at the moment.
 
Many thanks,
 
   Matthew

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It's usually the other way around.  And USB 3 ports in themselves can play up in that they'll not use the extra lines or in some cases the lines themselves become bent or tarnished.  Not to mention the cables aren't the most reliable things.

 

Sounds like you've done the right procedure already, as in uninstall the hubs and let them be re-detected.

I guess you've tried the non working devices in another machine or whatever and they're OK?

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I'm always tempted to blame Windows update when unexplained things happen!

 

On my main PC, it has two front USB 3 ports that work intermittently while the direct ones on the motherboard always work fine.

I put it down to either crap internal cable or as Rybags has said, the ports are worn.

 

My biggest problem with USB 3 external devices has been cables.

Even new out of the bag they refuse to work................open another one and it works.

Someone needs to sit down with a few brands and find the best, most consistent one!

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I assume you've done sfc /scannow?  Tried setting your BIOS to run USB3 in compatibility mode?

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Yeah, updates can be a real problem.  There was an issue a couple of years ago where USB in power saving mode would cause stuff to not work properly.

Long shot but maybe worth disabling that option.

 

Cables - yep, and the fact they bend the things beyond what they should be as part of the packaging process sets that in motion before you even use them.

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Funny how the higher the spec the more problems you get.

I end up  with half my later USB devices plugged into USB 1/2 ports!

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2 hours ago, Nich... said:

I assume you've done sfc /scannow?  Tried setting your BIOS to run USB3 in compatibility mode?

 

^ This.

If it's a fancy new PC with all the bells and whistles and motherboard tools installed, it could have literally done an online BIOS update, and reverted the USB3 to native mode.

Check what settings you have in the BIOS for USB behavior, and fiddle a bit.

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The PC - is my old 2004 - 2008? Big rig - a Gigabtye P35 motherboard with a Conroe 2 Q9600 quad core 2.4 GHz CPU with a massive 8 GB of RAM, plus ePCI to 4 USB x 3 and PCI to 2 * serial ports and ePCI to 4 x USB 2.0 ports. 

 

I am puzzle why one day everything is fine and the next day kaput to stuff that should just simply work.

 

All the powered USB 3 hubs are on 3 metre USB 3.0 cables.  No idea why USB2 ports are all failing most basic detection under Windows 10 - a voltage or ampage issue (under / over supply)?  Not sure how to fix four hubs that all say in Windows device manager they are all fine - but simply don't initiate the most simple USB 2.0 devices.  To me that points to a definite Windows 10 issue - so I guess I need a USB2 port fixer program?

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Don't suppose you have one of those cheap USB power meters?  Might be worth a shot.

Given the board is somewhat old - P35 was 2007 onwards - and Gigabyte - I'd not put it out of the question that the power distribution and/or caps are just failing.  I've got a gen 1 Core i Gigabyte board here and the Mofsets are going on it which causes it to have real trouble just starting up.

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If it isn't Windows Update...............It's lack of power.................usually.

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Posted (edited)

Actually Rybags - my Silverstone USB 3.1 powered hub has Voltage and Ampage monitoring and readout on each of its ports!

 

So update 2.0 -

 

PC failed to boot today; after 10 minutes athe the Windows splash screen a MS Error - DPC critical error screen appears... arggh!

 

Disconnected an old HD (third such in same PC) and connected my boot SSD from an add in card to direct to the motherboard - PC booted first thing.

Majority of USB2 hubs and all the devices attached to them reconnected and initiated (minus the two USB2 ports on the back of my USB3 astro cameras - and one of these ports connects to the critical the filter wheel).  But at least now I have a guide camera and a filter wheel back in action (once I swapped cables and connected it directly to a handy USB2 hub).

 

So I try and run Troubleshooter and long story short find this release of Windows 10 has removed access to USB / hardware trouble shooter... arrgh!  Then I find from a Administrator CMD I can run "msdt.exe -0id DeviceDiagnostic" which brings back the troubleshooter, but it doesn't manage to fix the problem.  Another day - more fun with Windows!

Edited by g__day

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Didn't you get a new machine for stacking? 

Can't you test it all hanging off that machine?

Is it time for a Windows reinstall yet?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, g__day said:

 

Majority of USB2 hubs and all the devices attached to them reconnected and initiated (minus the two USB2 ports on the back of my USB3 astro cameras - and one of these ports connects to the critical the filter wheel).  But at least now I have a guide camera and a filter wheel back in action (once I swapped cables and connected it directly to a handy USB2 hub).

 

 

Sounds like it's time for some brand-name USB add-in cards, rather than hubs, eh?

Should be able to get some USB-C add in cards these days, and just some new C to A cables to join things up.

Edited by Master_Scythe

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Nich - the stacking machine is inside - runs very nicely - upped it to 64 GB RAM and added a second 1TB fast M2 drive for scratch files.  It chews through the stacking workload in a few minutes which is twenty times better than the old workhorse!  Don't want to put my beast in the astro lab.  The astro lab needs a minimum 4 core at 2.5 GHz machine with 4 USB 3 ports, 6 USB2 ports, 3 serial ports and ports for three monitors.  It doesn't have to be too powerful - but it should be able to handle 3-5 semi taxing programs running concurrently.  If it just won't play nice I mad spend a grand and swap to a 8 core AMD CPU with 16 GB RAM and just add cards for the serial ports!

 

Master-Scythe - the trouble with adding any decent cards to an old motherboard - isn't the limited Motherboard connection options - its the cabling run to where all the gear sits.  It's about 4 metres - which is just too long for USB3 cameras - they don't detect in Windows when connected to a USB3 add in card with a molex 4 pin powersupply in the card just to boost the power sent.  I have to run 3m USB3 cables to powered hubs - and use 2m USB 3 cable from their to successfully connect all my gear.  The distance and power required over USB3 is the kicker mate!  Alternatively I cloud run LAN cables from a switch and convert IP to USB3 + power - but I didn't try that route yet.  The final fall backs are either a mini PCs on the pier itself to run USB3 devices direct attached or a ZWO Alstair unit.

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You sound like you need your arm twisted for that ZWO 😉

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That's why I specifically went to USB-C, being reversible, they technically have twice the contacts, and a lower resistance to power throughput; but it's still possible it's not enough.

NUC's are SO CHEAP these days, and with Remote Desktop allowing USB sharing (if the PC needs more oomph), it sounds like a solution.

 

There's also PCI-E expander ribbon cards, you could knock a meter or two off your expansion cards distance.

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Googling correction suggestions past what I have done comes up with L2 support suggesting their is USB crap in the registry for this device - grab CCleaner and do some open heart surgery to remove all instances and reboot - seems legit and low risk... 😞

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39 minutes ago, g__day said:

Googling correction suggestions past what I have done comes up with L2 support suggesting their is USB crap in the registry for this device - grab CCleaner and do some open heart surgery to remove all instances and reboot - seems legit and low risk... 😞

 

Yeah, worth a shot.

 

BTW, this is what I meant when I said you can extend your PCI-E to move a USB expansion card closer.

 

https://youtu.be/q5xvwPa3r7M?t=160

 

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